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So I would say in the Orthodox Jewish community there are many kids that are struggling with fitting in and just feeling a part of the community, right and there's and a lot of kids resort to unhealthy things To feel validated to feel comfortable to feel a part of a community. So I'm sure Rebbe sees that a lot So how does Rebbe deal with kids coming in or as a parent and as a mechanic Shur Abbanim gives speeches all the time. Who listens? You know? If Rebbeim get up in Yisheela and gives speeches, who listens? It doesn't necessarily matter. The reason why we would listen is because that's where our safety is. That's where our attachment is. So a child who grows up in a home where he feels deeply attached to his family, not only his parents, his siblings, his cousins, his aunts, his uncles, his grandparents.
A child who grows up within a community Baruch Hashem the Jewish community is amazing but it's not safe for everybody right for whatever reasons but a child who grows up in a community with a healthy respect for a shul Rav understanding that the people that sit behind him in front of him next to him in shul these are the people in your neighborhood so to speak right these are the people that are going to be there for you throughout your life you know it's funny even the glasses that I'm wearing right now when I was growing up There was a guy who sat next to us in Shul, wonderful person, his name is Yona Yavna, he owns Visionville in the five towns. So of course I got my glasses from Visionville because I sat next to Yona Yavna. You know like when you make a chassna, these are the people that come, when you make a bar mitzvah, these are the people that come.
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If a kid grows up with a healthy sense of attachment to his family, to his community, So then when the parents and the revayim transmit healthy beautiful values, why would a kid reject those values? Those are my community's values. This is my community. These are my family's values. This is why would I leave those values? Right. Except that sometimes for whatever reason, and again this is not a chassidus for children to blame parents for children going off the deck, or children struggling. Children struggle because children struggle and it's a natural part of being a human being. But let's say in today's day and age, nobody's fault, not assigning any blame, it's hard for parents to be emotionally attuned to their children because the parents themselves are working so hard, you know? And so if mom and dad are both working and they're getting home and then they're like taking care of their kids but they're frazzled.
They had a hard day themselves. How much bandwidth do they have for their own children? It's hard to be. You'll see guys when you get to become parents. You come home after a long day and then your kids, yeah, you're wiped and your kids are whatever. You're going to really say like, yeah, I'm able to be fully present for my kids. No, not necessarily. And again, my mother tells me that she used to go on vacation with all of her, with all of her family. She would go with her cousins and her aunts and her uncles. There is a certain strength to that type of family unit. Today things are much more spread out. You don't necessarily, you know, cousins could be people that you see a couple times a year. It used to be, you know, in older times... Like your sibling. Yeah, your family lived together in the same shtetl because first of all people couldn't move that far.
And there was a certain safety that came with this is our family's town and of course we put down roots here. The greater sense of attachment that there is, the more likely it is that we're going to be able to transmit our values. So again, I just want to be clear. It doesn't mean that the kid goes off the darach, it's the parent's fault for not creating safety. But what it does mean is that as parents, we have to know what we're in control of or what's in our influence. I'm not necessarily in control of my child's behavior, but I know that I can influence my child's behavior By creating happy healthy homes vibrant homes and those types of homes why wouldn't a kid wanna be a part of it? But let's say chasersh Olam a kid is part of a home where there's no safety in the home And there's no shalom bias issues in the home there's yelling in the home the kid doesn't feel understood Now he goes to school or she goes to school and there's a group of kids that make this kid feel very safe You know, I remember when I was growing up those kids that were like off the deck they were so Accepting and understanding and they really created space for everybody. They were Empathetic yeah, very empathetic and I remember thinking even as a teenager
I remember thinking it'd probably be really cool to be part of that group because since those kids themselves felt very misunderstood They created the deep level of understanding for each other. So let's think about it here At home, he is not getting the attachment that he is looking for. This Hevra of kids that he has now met, they are giving him all the attachment, all the safety, all the love, all the empathy. And those kids have a completely different value system. Which one of those places is going to be safe for him? Of course, the kid is going to be willing to walk away from his home. Because there is more safety and more love somewhere else. Again, it doesn't mean that it was the parents fault. Things happen, it's difficult to create safety in the home. Our kids will naturally gravitate towards a place where they feel safe.
How to balance the standards of a community with the individual needs of the child. So we might say this is the standard of Tzniyas in our home. We might say this is the expectation around minyan and learning in our home. And yet we also know that kids struggle with these things and that that's a normal part of the process. So if we're going to go after our kids and we're going to enforce these standards in You Would Want Her To For the middle of 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade, I went to Darchei.
and I remember, I remember how Rabbi Bender Of course Darchei was a place that valued Alexandria as one of the central aspects of all of Yevushka'i. But what do you do with those kids who can't learn so well? If you fall on through the cracks. He had a way of making space for those kids. In Darchay, he had a way of making space for those kids. In Darchay, growing up, there was a man who was an electrician, and he would come to fix the lights. This is before today Darchay's beautiful buildings. Back then it was just broken down buildings. Electricity was constantly being worked on. I remember that there were Darchay kids that would tag along with the electrician, and he would teach them about it. That was their way. They found their place in that way. I was the kid that couldn't sit still.
Or he needed to get me out of the room and I'm pretty sure he needed to get me out of the room But that was brilliant it was brilliant because an adraba felt like abul haseh and on sundays There was a special needs person, special needs kid that would come to darcha on sundays And I was put in charge of taking care of him for the day Probably because I wasn't a kid that could sit still in school Sunday through Friday every Single day so they figured out they were creative and I felt very safe there I felt very safe Do you feel that most issues in high schools and seminaries aren't really doing well with that? Because it seems like there's a lot of kids that are feeling unsafe and distant from the community. I think that whatever is, you should first of all know it's light years better than it was How much better could they do? Given the realities that you're at home, you're in the community, you're not 6,000 miles away, given the amount of time that they have with you over the course of a day, it's harder to do it.
So I'm not saying that we don't have still a ways to go, but I think we've come a long way and we have to create reasonable expectations as we incrementally move forward. I'm really amazed by the work that's being done. It certainly wasn't happening when I was a kid. So I wouldn't want to say anything negative. It doesn't mean we don't have more to do. I think frankly we have more to do in Yeshivi Yerushilvah also. But again, remember that it's always a tough age. I'll tell you why I'm going to push back a little bit. You know, let's take your dusseling and you have to get in trouble for it. By definition, he's not going to feel safe, right? Because like, he got in trouble. Right. But, I don't know, like, so what's the opposite of that? The opposite of that is not so we don't get kids in trouble so they'll feel safe.
Because that's not good chinoch, right? We have to be able to tell kids no, because that's a part of creating the trellisis to make sure that the tree grows straight. So teaching our children no is an important part of loving them. It doesn't necessarily feel good, but it is an important part of loving them. So what does that healthy know look like? Yeah, so, you know, first of all, you say yes as often as possible so that when you say no, it's understood, right? I heard from Danyel Kalish, who's the manil of Waterberry, who's, you know, he was here this year, you guys got to see him, he's a phenomenal makhan. Exactly. And I heard from him years ago, he said a very sharp line. He said, parents often ask him like, What am I going to do to my kid if I say don't do this and then they do it anyway? And he's like, why would your kid not do it if you told them not to do it?
So he was saying to the parent, you yourself have to think about if you say no to a kid and he does it anyway, what's going on in that relationship? No, like why? What if you say no you say no, right? So we don't say no with with real genuine anger. We say these are the values of our family. These are the expectations of our family. And again, if the family is awesome and there's love and there's gishmak so then why wouldn't the child listen to the rules? And if the child doesn't listen to the rules, then a parent has to ask themselves what was going on that they didn't, right? And what am I in control of? And very Kids Test Boundaries
Every kid deserves a shot for sure Yes, they reached a very, very high level after 49 days of working on themselves in the 50th level, but we also know that not that long afterwards they did the Heitah Eagle. Again, I'm not suggesting that what they did was okay, but I'm saying, Gantz Klal Yisrael received the Torah and we have to give over the Torah to every single kid. And a yeshiva has to be honest with itself and parents who are sending their son or daughter to a yeshiva or seminary need to be honest with where their kid is at. Yeshiva has different core competencies. So just because Yeshiva is a higher level Yeshiva doesn't mean that that's the right place for your son. Because maybe your son or your daughter needs a certain style of china or a certain style of teacher. And what appeals to one won't appear to the other.
Let's say you have Yeshivas that are very academic. Super high level learning. And a parent might say to themself, I want my kid to be around those kids. Yes, I don't know what he's doing in this yeshiva. Maybe nobody will want to be a chavrousa with him. And what's the negative impact of that? And I was going to feel lucky the last part. Yeah, maybe even less then. For sure. And so maybe sometimes when you send your kid to a yeshiva, maybe the Rebbeim are a little bit more young or maybe the Rebbeim are a little bit more involved. They have a different chanach mission. Maybe that's an important step for that person. But you'll say, but I heard in that yeshiva that these boys are doing this. Yes, yeah, in a chanami sometimes there's a price to pay but you have to believe in the long-term chanach of the child.
And again, nobody could say for sure because we're not in a vehem, nobody could say for sure, this is the right Yeshiva and this is the wrong Yeshiva. We give it a shot, we do our best. So is it Klal Yisrael's responsibility to make sure every kid has a Yeshiva? I think we can all agree the answer to that question is yes. And I would say even more, is it our responsibility to make sure that every kid goes to the best Yeshiva for them? I would say yes, but we have to be honest about what that looks like. If a Yeshiva is going to walk around saying really we're better at this than we are, not helping anybody, right? And if a parent is going to say this is really really my son, but really maybe that's not your son right now. Maybe you have the beautiful eyes of a parent who project forward as to what your son could be, but you might not be so Real with where your son is holding right now. So it's an art. It's a real art now having said all of that I'll tell you what's not okay What's not okay is the amount of pain that exists because there are kids that don't get in anywhere and Even though Sometimes, you know, eventually those kids you say eventually they get in everywhere
Maybe it takes three weeks or maybe it takes a month or whatever it is or six weeks We need to be doing our very, very, very best to make sure that kids feel not only welcomed, but embraced. We need to make sure that when a kid comes to Yeshiva, he feels like they wanted me. And I think we need to do a better job in that area. We the Yeshivas can do a better job. Is it a complicated process? It sure is. I'll tell you I'm a part of that process so I can tell you how complicated it is. In Yeshiva we really feel apart
Unsafe You know, it was like I wouldn't have wanted to open up to my Rebbeim. Those are the last people I would have wanted to open up to Maybe an NCSY advisor, you know, that was somebody I was once an NCSY advisor that I felt like maybe I could open up to him I didn't want to have like a like a one-on-one conversation with my Rebbe because I get a Musershmoos, you know Like it was an interesting I mean not that a Rebbe no, but they could be you know, right you know a lot of things right
I give you guys a lot of credit. You guys want to talk. You guys want to work on yourselves. The level of vulnerability that exists in the Yeshivas today, where the boys are able to say, Rebbe, I did this, or I'm struggling with that, or I'm not proud of this. You guys are incredible that way. It seems to me that when you have a Rebbe who's just invited and he says, hey, I'm here and Then and then you see one guy comes it's always like that in the beginning of the year. You have that one guy He was like the first guy. He's the nachshon benamidadav. He walks in He's the first guy to walk into the Rebbe's room, you know, and then he comes out guys Like how was it and if he goes he goes honestly was good, right? All of a sudden the Rebbe has like 50 Rebbe Can we speak? You know I'm saying like yeah, for sure. Somebody's gotta break somebody's gotta break the ice The invitation to be yourself is what a yeshiva can offer. It doesn't mean that a yeshiva doesn't have standards and it doesn't mean that we don't hold young men accountable when they violate those standards. But the overall feeling of a yeshiva has to be come with your false self. Of course the Rebbe is going to say to you what he believes is the right thing to do.
Cuz you give an example Yeah, this is actually something I was thinking about while we were talking a little bit like let's say like a kid is going to Wants to go to Yeshiva, right? A kid wants to go to another Sarah Shradda and his kid and their parents like no You're going straight to college and the kid already has a good close relationship with the Rebbe He knows that going to Yeshiva is probably the best choice from the Rebbe knows it too You know, but the parents would be very upset at the Rebbe and the kid, you know If he didn't have one Yeshiva How much could the Rebbe get involved in that relationship without maybe the parents making it a little upset? But how far could the Rebbe? Shomer Shabbosom
Goes to This College And Rashi'u and I were Mesupik what to do, you know like, not because we were going to the young man, but because the young man was coming to us. And he was saying like, I don't know I'm thinking about where I should go to college, you know if I would go to, you know, an environment where there's going to be more Jews, or if I would go to a place like WU and I could continue my learning and this is a young man who's quite serious in Yeshiva. And I don't want to say which Gedel is, I'm not sure that he would want his name used, but we went to a certain Gedel to ask the question. The Gudel said you have to walk a very fine line between sharing with this Talmud what you feel is best, but also recognizing we're not going to take responsibility as Rebbeim for the negative impact of this decision.
So for example, let's say he would have chosen not to go to that college, and let's say he would have chosen to go to YU. I don't know what that would have done to his relationship with his mother. And maybe you'll sit here and go, eh, it would have been fine, but maybe it wouldn't have. And at the end of the day, I'm not the one that has to deal with that problem. That young man is. So we have to be careful when we're talking to talmidim or talmidot. We have to be careful that we understand that just because we have a belief about something, it's still not our life. And so we can't necessarily go places that we're not invited. Right, so if let's say I was a high schooler, I'd be in of course, I see the real value of this young man spending a year in Israel and connecting to the land of Israel and connecting to the Torah there at Yisrael and and having that experience of being 6,000 miles away and the freedom that comes with that and You know and now this young man wants it either Rebbe wanted and the parents are like you're going straight to college Yeah, okay. Well on the one hand you could say victory. I got that kid to go to Israel Yeah, but now let's say it really strains the relationship with the parents. I'm not taking responsibility for that
So a Rebbe has to walk a very fine line Between knowing like yeah, this might be my belief system, but ultimately It's not my place the kid has to own it. So the Rebbe is a challenge. Yeah for sure So let's say let's say the parents let's say the kid comes in one day and he goes, right? My parents are willing to speak with you So if the parents come in the first thing I'm saying to them is I want you to know I'm not part of this decision This is your decision to make with your son. I can share with you my experience around Israel. I can try to listen to some of your fears Maybe give you some information, right? Maybe maybe we could think about this in different ways But also if the Rebbe is a smart Rebbe he'd be willing to listen to the parents also and listen to their experience and their fears You know and not not in a manipulative way in an authentic way Yeah, and then whatever happens happens, you know, and if a kid chooses, let's say not to go to Israel for the year Rebbe has responsibility to do his best to maintain a relationship with that young man and the Jewish community has to pick up that kid also. Even if he chooses not to go to Israel.
Just as you've struggled and you've learned from your past, let that kid go through the same experience. Abdicate Your Mission of Parenting Okay, I'm out. He's gonna do what he wants. Of course you have to stay involved. Of course that means you have to double down on the relationship. Of course it means that the investiture of time and energy and effort and resources into that kid has to double down if you see a kid going in a certain way. Okay, so then what does that kid need? Like let's make sure to keep building that relationship. And sometimes it means saying something. But of course you have to know when to say and when not to say and what. Just because a kid won't hear it doesn't mean you don't say it. And just because your kid is listening doesn't mean you say it. You have to know when to say when not to say you know.
And as Roshol Nofreifel Zecha Tzaduk Levreich has said, you have to know how to keep one eye opened and one eye closed. But I think that you're not allowed to say, okay, he's going to do what he's going to do. So whatever. Just wait till he comes back. But at the same time, I think our natural inclination when we see the people we love making mistakes that we know will have a long term impact on them, Our natural inclination is to turn towards control. And the one thing I do know is that trying to control your children doesn't work. And even if it works in the short term, it certainly will not work in the long term. Because at the end of the day, at some point, your kid is going to be out from underneath your control. And then what happens? The only reason he's doing it is because of that control that we're not looking to create robots, we're looking to create people.
Rebbe's Job is to Challenge To be encouraging, to be a journeyman right? And sometimes you know well intentioned a young man in Yeshiva who let's say become inspired now turns to his friend and goes don't do that And other kid turns around and he goes oh look who's two for him you know I'm like he lost his friend because his friend tried to be his Rebbe You know as friends if you're really friends you already know what the other person thinks And if you're really friends, you don't need to say it. But if you're, again, the best thing, if my friend is struggling, okay, he's struggling, he knows it's not right. You know, I'm going to tell him something he doesn't know. The kid is starting to use certain substances. I, the friend, go over and go, you know, it's a bad idea. Like, as if the kid didn't already think that. Like, what are we talking about here?
So, again, you have to, the person has to be mindful of the impact that it has on themselves. But, okay. Like, that's your friend, right? If he's really your friend, in good times and in bad, right? We're there for our people. Sure. And in terms of, and I know this is probably a very difficult part of your job, just punching kids, you know, and say a kid does something in Yeshiva and like, there's not, you know, the kid did something really bad and like, you don't want to kick him out of Yeshiva, but if you don't make a statement, like, you know, it's, it couldn't lead to, you know, at least the worst thing. So like, in terms of, you know, punishing kids, like, what's your strategy on that? And like, how much value do you think it, It can bring to a kid or just bring to the Yeshiva in better. Punishment is a last resort. A lot of things have to go wrong for a punishment to be in place. The nature of a punishment is to be able to tell somebody who apparently can't hear it any other way, this is the consequence of your actions and don't go down that road. But when we think about it, we don't want to expel kids from Yeshiva. We don't want to ask a kid to leave Yeshiva. Chaz for Shalom. We want every kid to be in Yeshiva.
We don't want to suspend kids from Yeshiva because if they're suspended from Yeshiva then we're not able to educate them We're not able to teach them exactly what they know and yet somebody crossed the red line So there's a process there always has to be a process the process has to involve You know like Chazal said you're drawing somebody close with your right hand and you're pushing away with your left hand Which means first you have to do your best right the imagery of drawing close with your right and pushing away with your left Heh tammashkiah charei heh tammanaal. They got me in trouble. Right. And the Rebbe is the only one that understands me. In the meantime, it's exactly what Yisrael wanted, right? Because he got the message, this is not okay. And the Rebbe is working with him. And honestly, sometimes when you're in a position of discipline, you're unpopular. And if you really believe that what you're doing is leshaim shammayim, you have to grow a thick skin. And you have to know, like, just like, again, parents have to have the ability to say no. I, but your kid is going to kick and scream and say, I hate you. And don't you know,
All rules are always designed to protect the weakest among us. That's the nature of rules. So we do our best. We ask for a commitment. And we say, look, you need to understand this is the score. This is the policy. This is the culture that we create here. Can you be a part of that? Please, let's not get to a place because we like you, we care about you, we want you to be here. Let's not get to a place where it's still happening. Now it happens again. Now we're already talking about, like, okay, we've done our best. The Rebbe's This is going to be the consequence of your action. Are you sure this is what you want to do? And honestly at that point it's starting to get a little bit dangerous because now you're in an adversarial relationship with the kid. And once you're in an adversarial relationship with this young man, you're not going to be able to inspire him. That inspiration is going to have to come from somewhere else.
So we really don't want to get to punishment because if you're going to get to punishment, So we really don't want to get to punishment because even though punishment has its place, if you've arrived at that point, I feel like we're butting heads now and we're not working together. I want to have an environment where the talmidim are coming to the Rebbeim and saying help me work on this. There's always the difference, right? If a talmud comes to a Rebbe and says hey I'm struggling with this, he never gets in trouble because that's exactly what the Rebbeim want. We want to be working with the guys. And if I care, if we catch a kid and he's sneaking out of the system, it means that We are failing each other because you didn't come here to do that and we didn't wake up in the morning to try to catch you. So a lot of things are going wrong at that point. You can't get father-son relationship. It's impossible because with a father you have to give discipline to your kid.
You're not going to be friends with your kid. Obviously there's an inherent love between a father and a son or a mother and a daughter. You know, etcetera, but I think that in terms of a Rebbe like there is some sort of friendship It's a relationship like you're gonna have a relationship. I mean not for everyone but You can't be a father son relationship. You're bringing up an important point and You're you're touching on a subject that Rav Hirschl and I discussed in the summer went pretty viral We had this debate in the summer in NCSY Kolol of should you Rebbe know what you're doing on a Saturday night? And if Hirschl was arguing the positive and I was arguing the negative Rebbe has to know what's going on on a Saturday night in order to educate the kid makes a lot of sense because how can I educate my Talmud if I don't know where they're involved? I think I had the harder position. But I think that really our debate was about what level of closeness versus what level of distance should you have with your Rebbe.
Father-Son Relationship Look up to my Rebbe. I think that's important also. Here's a picture of my Rebbe of Parnas. I was exceptionally close with my Rebbe, but there was a great distance between us also. I think I grew from that distance. I think one of the disadvantages of having Yom Gerebam that are more relevant, more relatable, is we lose that sense of emo. We lose that sense of awe of Yerba that you have from your Rebbe. As a result, I don't need my Rebbe to be my friend because I have plenty of friends. I don't think you've met friendship before. I just want to be You could be very close with your father but it comes with the complexity of being a father. A Rebbe doesn't have that complexity, doesn't have that baggage. The father might have expectations of his child that the child doesn't have of themselves. And the child might be aware that those expectations, that's my dad's expectations but it's not necessarily me. Tzitzot the Talmud Ba'sher Husham
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