Transcript
Automatic transcript; may contain mistakes, especially in Hebrew.
Alright Ruf, so would you mind just giving a little background, like a little quick background of you? What specifically would you like to meet? Like you already grew up in schools? Grew up in the five towns Started off in Farakkawai I was in Farakkawai until I think I was 15 or 16 years old then we moved to Lawrence I tried out two other yeshivas after I realized that yeshiva wasn't going to work out for me.
So I floundered basically from January to June, not really finding my place. Each yeshiva that I was in offered something unique, something that I realized I could gain from it. But ultimately I didn't feel comfortable. And then randomly one day I saw an ad in the Jewish press that they were opening up Lander College for Men. The first announcement was that Rav Branchebigal is Eretz Zadok Levrakho, who unfortunately passed away a year ago. He had Alzheimer's. They announced that Rav Branchebigal was going to be the Rosh Yeshiva. Now, I never knew Rav Branchebigal, but I had older guys that I looked up to that had been in his Sheer NYU, so it caught my attention. And then a short while later, maybe a couple of weeks, they announced that Rif Parnas was coming over also. And Rif Parnas, this is Rif Parnas right here on the wall, Rif Parnas was somebody that I had known about, a lot about, for a lot of different reasons. Maybe we can get into that one time.
Read the full transcript
And so I was like, oh my gosh, that's like an all-star lineup, and they're really putting together something real here. So I took my interview with Rif Branspiegel. I was, I got in. There were 33 guys, I think, the first year of Landers. Which was crazy to think about, right? The joke in Yeshiva was then I think the Lander campus they told us was like a 35 million dollar campus. And we were like 33 guys. So we used to say, yeah, we're like about a million bucks a guy, you know? Which was funny. But it was great. I like being part of new things. Like I'm a startup type of guy. And I, Bar HaShammah, I was very very lucky, very privileged, very blessed to be in Rif Parnas's Sheer and I became very very close with my Rabbi. I stayed in his Sheer for eight years.
I was in the Sheer for five years and then three years I had the opportunity to prepare Sheer with Rashi Rosh Lita. Shabbu Zachatur Fushalaymah, he's 96 years old now. So we were exceptionally close and then we made Aliyah 16 years ago. It will be 16 years this summer, the end of August, and I came right back to Mevaseret and I've been here for 16 years. So that's the short version of that journey. That's amazing, this is segwaying off what you just said there. Backing it up to what you originally said, you said that you left after a year and a half at Yisheba. And personally, you said you needed to find something from other Yishebas, three other Yishebas you said for a second, but you came back to Mevaseret after, because you came back. What switch did someone contact you? Yeah, I didn't first of all I when I say it was a mistake to leave after a year and a half It wasn't because I went looking for something that wasn't here in Mevaseret. I left I Always want to be honest on this podcast. I think it's important. I think Talmidim deserved to have an honest Rebbe There was something that was happening here in the yeshiva That I didn't know how to extricate myself from the details don't matter
I had a conversation with my parents about my situation, and I was able to call upon my courage to confront that situation. It could have been rectified. I didn't feel at that time that I had access to that resource in terms of finding that within myself. My parents wanted me to come home after a year and a half. Looking back on it, I certainly could have had a conversation with them asking them to stay longer, Mevaseret had a tremendous amount to offer, and my friends who stayed quite frankly grew immensely in that time period. So I do have not regret, but I learned from the way that I left. The next Yeshiva that I went to was a very important part of the I had a wonderful Rebbe there, a very very fine Tamuchahim. I did learn some things from him. I was only there for a short amount of time, but there were things that I learned from him.
In the next Yeshiva that I went to, I learned the importance of having a growth-oriented Hebra. The Yeshiva doesn't exist anymore, but it was a Yeshiva that it was in the process of rebuilding. It had achieved a certain amount of success. And then the guys that it had achieved success with moved on They weren't successful in getting the next group of guys. I was part of that next group and Actually, there was a bunch of old Mevaseret guys that like they had been in that Yeshiv and they're like, oh, yeah You should totally go because they were trying to like replenish the crop I met some wonderful people there People were like great great guys, but the overall Haver of the Yeshiva was not a growth-oriented Haver
How did you not give up hope?
Like there was part of it was me but also part of it was the reality the structure wasn't what I was looking for But for sure the problem was me there are guys that went to all three of those yeshivas with great levels of success So I don't think the problem was with them. I think that they were designed for one thing. I was looking for something else There was a yeshiva that I wanted to go to it doesn't matter what the name of it was but it was something that my parents really didn't want and I I think looking back on it Hashem had an amazing plan and probably if I would have like spoken it out with my parents probably they would have come around. I knew it's not what they wanted though and I'm so blessed that their Abunishlam like put me in that position. But for sure I don't know if I like started to lose my sense of self. I guess maybe I did because I was losing hope. But I didn't I don't think that I had the thought of like you know they say the famous joke like Rosh Yeshiva calls in one of his talmidim.
This is a guy who was like an older single. And there's Shiva goes, how many girls have you dated? And the guy goes, Rebbe actually just counted over 200. There's over 200. He goes, and none of them worked out. He goes, no. He goes, what was like the thing they all had in common? So the guy thinks about it. He goes, I don't know. Different ones didn't work out for different reasons. This one we did another communication. This one the attraction wasn't there. This one, hax kafa wasn't there. In this case, because I don't think it was true, I think I just had an ambition that was different than what the design of these Yeshivas were. By the way, Landers wasn't perfect either. It's just that, and you don't need, I think that's one of the things I learned in life, and maybe you guys will tell me if you learn the same thing.
You don't need the structure to be 100%. You just need it to be enough. I wouldn't say that. Yeah, tell me what you would say. I think I disagree. In a sense, like this year in Yeshiva, I don't know if I spoke to Rebbe enough about it, but I was jumping around from Sheer to Sheer. I'm in Shabbat right now and I started off from R'safir I moved to Rav Viser or Rav Adbel literally went through six Sheer But I'm finally my sixth Sheer right now when we're hornled and at a certain point like you lose faith in the actual system that you're in Meaning okay, take strong kaiach, but there's no there was no darach for me Meaning I was just sent to another Rebbe to another Rebbe to another Rebbe And I'm not saying anything in the Dinim of Haserah Meaning maybe it's a Dinim in the actual Yeshiva system in general Is like our overarching struggle. I think that's a big thing for us either. I personally don't know I've spoken to a few guys and for me it would be depression, anxiety, but like as the manahabdeshi vote working with over hundreds and hundreds of guys and you've seen so many guys and so many different people is there one like recurring problem or struggle that people are dealing with or maybe three or four multiple struggles that you've seen like over your 10 to 20 years working here.
Yeah, well first I just want to I want to go back. I think you're making a really important I think that's an important point before we get to your new question. No, I want to answer your question! First of all, I appreciate you sharing it. I think it's valid what you were saying that your experience was like losing hope, losing faith in yourself, losing faith in the system, losing faith in Gemara. I totally hear that. The only thing that I would gently push back on is... Or if he has enough of what you're looking for. I'll explain to you why I'm pushing back. Let's say when it comes to dating, right? So if you're looking for the perfect girl, I don't know that that exists, right? If you're looking for the perfect job, I don't know that that exists, right? If you had a checklist of, in order for me to have a successful job, I need these 10 things, right? I don't know that, I mean, some people are lucky and they find a job that I think more often than not we find a job that has seven or eight of those things. There are enough things there to be successful. I think we have to dial back our expectation from perfection to enough. The opposite of impoverished, when we say having an abundance mentality versus an impoverished mentality, the opposite of being impoverished is not having everything.
The opposite of impoverished is having enough. So systems will never be perfect. There is no system that can be perfect because every system by definition is going to have some lack. So I totally hear what you're saying in terms of your frustration with the system. I can definitely empathize with that. Like I said, I went through it myself for months also. Like this shiur, this yeshiva, and I also was in a place where I was like, why can't I just find the yeshiva that has all of these things, that has the right shear, the The right guys, the right atmosphere, like why can't I find that? It's not that Landers had all of those things, it's not even that my Rebbe was the perfect Rebbe, though I would argue that in my checklist of 10 I certainly was blessed that I had all 10. But it was enough.
It was enough. You know what I'm saying? I think that's an important point, just to keep an enough mentality in life. Guy is dating a girl, he comes back and goes, Rebbe, but like she has eight of these things It's the rest of your life that you can't say that enough mentality. Oh, don't worry. It's enough. It's good I've been dating for 10 years now, and I find a girl that's enough therefore I have to date her because I have to marry her because now I'm at that point where I need to say enough is enough like Our are the way that we think about enough I think is wrong We think about enough is like it's enough Enough is enough. We don't think of enough as a lot. Enough is a lot. But enough is a worldview. Let's reframe for a second. Let's take a guy who's got to support a family.
How much money is enough? In the perspective of enough, what's called enough? So enough, I think we would say, is if you have enough for the immediate present and the foreseeable future. That's called having enough. Everyone could define what that number is. I'm sure it's different strokes for different folks. But that's a lot. If you have enough for now, for the immediate present and the foreseeable future, you have a lot. I have enough time with my children for that wealth. Enough is not small, you know what I'm saying? The system has to be enough, which is a lot, but it doesn't need to be perfect. That's the the duggish. A guy is dating a girl, she could be great. She could be great. She could be amazing. She's enough. Not, she's enough. She's enough. Do you hear the difference? So we have to reframe a little bit.
And it's not people that are like, So I should settle. You should never settle. Enough is not settling. What if for a kid that's like, let's say this kid's in a shiva or wherever he is, he's dating, and he feels that in his life, like he's hopeless. And how are you supposed to see that enough when you're feeling in a place of hopelessness? What's your way out of that, like, to be able to see that your life is enough? I think you're like really drilling down well on this point because it's we see the world through the lens of our own ego, right? Like what is objective reality? Like even right now we're all sitting in this room but we're all playing very different roles in this room. So all of us are having a completely different experience and the person who's listening to this podcast is having a different experience than the four of us. So what is reality, right? What is reality?
Like reality becomes the way that you see it. Even Alpikabalah they say, and this is a cool idea, what happened? Nachshom Benaminadav jumped into the Am Suf and then it split. So there's multiple ways of looking at this. You could say Nachshom Benaminadav jumped in and then Hashem made a miracle and he split the sea. It's one way of looking at it. Or, and this is what it says in Kabbalah which is deeper, The sea split because Anashom Menaminadov jumped in. Because the way that he saw reality was that the sea will split. That's the way reality became. In reality, it really works by the way. You see people with positive outlooks in life, they tend to attract positive things in their lives. It doesn't mean that they won't have hard things, but in general we find that happy people attract happiness, positivity in their lives.
It seems to be that reality is not as black and white as we think it is. It's not as fixed as we think it is. Two people could live in the same dorm, in the same yeshiva, in the same shear. You have two completely different experiences. So you're drilling down on Akiva, which is such an important point is what happens when I see the lens, when I see reality through the lens of my own hopelessness? How can anything ever be enough? Right? Well, the answer is, I think my experience is that in that case, you'd be 100% right. You are not enough within, nothing will ever be enough without. Does that make sense? But the opposite is also true. Let's say a person was in a state of hopelessness and nothing is ever enough for them, if they would go to work on themselves and then they would find that enoughness within themselves, then all of a sudden reality has everything that they need. Does that make sense?
So, yeah, no, so I'm just curious. So if logic is based on reality, right and when someone's going through all these emotions and they're looking through the lens of hopelessness And you're trying to speak to them logic and be like this issue is gonna work out Right, but to them they're not looking through your lens of reality and therefore that logic isn't logical that you're a hundred percent, right? You can't tell somebody right if somebody's in the state of hopelessness. You can't say to them, but there's hope Right, if you if they were able to hear that then they would have already access to that voice within themselves How do you make someone aware of that? How do you bring the awareness to them?
If it's objective reality, then my way I look at the world, I don't see that kernel. I'll never see that kernel. But my point is you've already seen that, Colonel. The expression of hopelessness is an expression of hope. It should be different. Let's make sure we have that point clear. There's a belief that it should be different, and I'm hopeless, and I believe that it never will be, as it should be. But whoever told you that it should be? In other words, you already have a level of hope that life should be good, right? So even within hopelessness, there's a kernel of irreducible hope that we can help a person realize
Optimism is a positive worldview. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. Pessimists are also good people. They also have a worldview. Maybe even their worldview is more objectively aligned with reality. We'd better be hoping in a pessimistic way. Well, maybe you could be because hope is the belief that life will certainly change. That's not optimism. It's a belief system. But would you ever want it to change in a negative way? Well, so pessimism is not negative, right? Just to be clear pessimism is Pessimists will tell you I'm not negative. I'm just telling you what's actually happening Optimists think but it's good and it'll be better right, but it's more of like it's more of an attitude optimism Hope is not an attitude. It's a belief system and the difference is that when you have a belief system That's really an operating system Hope is a part of the story that is already written, so now the question is what's my operating system underneath hope?
Because if I know that life will certainly change, so then what hope does is it obligates me to be a part of that change, because I'm either going to be part of the story or I'm not going to be part of the story, so I may as well be part of the story. So the operating system underneath hope is an obligation towards action. So yes, to the degree that a person has hope and he knows that life will certainly change and he operates in order to make life change, that's great. But what can happen is that a person could get, let's say, frustrated with this belief that life will certainly change when I don't see it changing. And then the operating system and the lack of hope in that hopeless place is, so why should I do anything if nothing's ever going to change? Does that make sense?
We have a scale meaning you have to understand both operating systems understand When you see when you see it when you see a person who's not getting up in the morning because they're hopeless You have to understand though that that works together. They had a belief system Nothing matters anyway because nothing is going to change Why should I get up in the morning and be a part of it all of my efforts are futile or alternatively? I know life will certainly change so let's get going yeah You see this let's say in dating when people are dating for a long time And now it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because when your operating system is no longer at peak performance, it's going to be that much harder to get married. This is the challenge. You can separate your reality and decide that their reality is going to be up and never going to get married.
Exactly. But you see the same thing in Yeshiva, by the way. A guy shows up to Yeshiva, opens up a Gemara day one. He can't translate the Gemara, meaning he can't punctuate it, valuize it, or even punctuate it, valuize it, or translate it. Right? Okay, good. Those are the three things. The Gomorrah has holes in it. The words don't even make any sense. So the Rishonim come in and they plug it in to show you how the words are going to be used. Re-Shown and to really analyze and understand that. And that the guy on some kind of level has dealt with that. Right, and then what happens? The more hope, of course. I dealt with it. For sure, for sure. And then the hopelessness sets in, but then that becomes the challenge, right?
Because the guy still has that expectation deep inside of him of like, this should be working, why isn't it working? But his operating system is not that he's showing up into the base measures, breaking his teeth, really getting there. We all know those guys in Yeshiva that show up day one and they're on fire and then a week later they're still crunching it, right? And then three months in they're still crunching it and you're like looking at that guy going like whoa You're light years ahead of where I am and he may not have been smarter. He had Grit, he had resilience. That's when I when it won't necessarily work out. I'm still gonna have hope right because because it won't happen Unless I keep in that grit. Yeah, and the opposite of that, right is Is usually what happens is there is vulnerability right that if I do this and fail it's going to confirm an Inter-negative belief that I have so let's say guy comes in and he has an Inter-negative belief that maybe I'M not smart enough and now he's a week into Yeshiva and he's Expecting you know fireworks day one by the time I'M a week into Yeshiva I'M going to be Able to read a chaim or a shimon shkop you know a piece from the Rav whatever it is right
And of course that's an unreasonable expectation, right? But now, every day that he opens up the Gemara, he feels foolish. So there's vulnerability there because it's confirming in a negative belief, going back to what we said before, that he's not enough. So if one identifies with who they truly are, they'll never have an issue of hopelessness, right? Okay, so that's a big point that you're making. I even love the way that you said it. I always learn so much from the way you say things like that. That's an impoverished mentality because that person never has enough. That's the system that we grew up in. Does Rebbe remember the speech that the Rosh Hashimah of H.K. when he came for the Akhdah's day? Yeah. He talks about a big thing in American teens is comfortability. Meaning the reason why we can't live in Israel is because we're too comfortable.
Everyone thought, oh, what's the reason we can't live here? Where we need money, we need Target, Walmart, whatever it is. As a growing up as an American teen. Yeah, Target or Walmart. I'm scared about being comfortable in Israel. I love this country by all art, but at a certain point the hopelessness kicks in and I'm like, I can't believe you're by myself. I'm an American teacher. I hear that. I really do. It's scary. And I think by the way, even when you get older, it could be even if let's say you leave, let's say it's not like a Target or Walmart issue anymore. I hear that. I really do. It's scary. And I think by the way, even when you get older, it could be even if let's say you leave Let's say it's not like a Target or Walmart issue anymore Which I think is real. I'm not making fun of sure But let's say for example the notion of moving here without family and without that support system It's like will I have enough what happens when we have kids?
I won't have parents that are gonna be around tell me I want to be in laws They're gonna be around to help me and I have to rely on neighbors What if I don't what if I'm not in a neighborhood where I feel comfortable? You're saying very very good At the end of the day, it's a real question of do we have enough resources? I think what Ellie's point is though, is that all of these resources really really are always found within and the godly soul Has enough of whatever it needs to be in this world, right? And there's you're given a mission in this world That's what the nature of a soul is right a soul means really a soul means a mission Yeah, and a soul means that you have all the The things that you need in order to be successful in the mission. So think about it, let's say like your boss hires you and he says, okay, I want you to do this job. The job is let's say computer programming.
So you say, okay, will you be issuing me a laptop? And he goes, no, I mean, be issuing me a computer. No, how would you like me to code? How would you want me to do this? So if Hashem gives us a job to do in this world, obviously he gives us the tools also. The tools are always in the soul. The self, which is the soul, has everything that it needs within. So the more a person is tapped into self, the more a person will be able to enter into situations and say, I have enough of whatever I need. And wherever I am, I'll be given exactly what I need. So it's actually, if you think about it, in a certain way it's a deep expression of faith. I have the faith in myself, I have the faith in Hashem, that wherever I'll be and whatever
I need I will have I might not have more than that but I'll have exactly what I need and I know we've talked about in the past like when you're still hopeless and like you there's nothing to look to like the only thing that could be hopeful for you is God and you know God is the is the beneath every any emotion that you have any foundation yeah you know when you tap in itself you know you really feel you feel godly so the only way to fill in that you know the lack of hope is God you know when you're in those moments that you know it's exactly right what you're saying We expect a Messianic world. So there's nothing wrong with... because we know that life will certainly change. There will be a time where this world becomes Olam Ha'ba and like the Na'vi says, there will be a time where we turn our swords into plowshirs. There will be a time in human history where we look back on specifically this period that we're living in and we go, people killed other people. Like it won't even make any sense. The same way we look at idolatry generations from now, or maybe not generations from now. Hopefully, Mashiel has a
Hope is the belief that life will certainly change. Hopelessness is when you give up on that belief system. You know life should be better but you believe that it never will be. The world of like the spoiled kid who's just been given everything that he wants. Let's say the belief in Mashiach, right? We believe that the world will one day be godly. And in that space there will be peace, right? So a person in their state of hopelessness says, yeah, the world should be a peaceful place, but it never will be. See, that's hopelessness because they think, yeah, it should be this way. But they are hopeless in the sense that it will never go from point A to point B
But whoever told you that the world should be a peaceful place whoever told you that That good things should happen to good people and not bad things Something about the designation of your soul knows your godly soul knows Life will certainly change you may not have access to that but this but you still have at least that But it should be good right so when a person goes through tragedy and they go why would God do that? So each human being is infinitely positive? There's a party that's looking at the hopelessness, like waiting for it to happen. I would say that when there's a part of us that's feeling hopeless, the avodah would be to discover within that hopelessness all of its communications, all of its beauty, all of its richness. The soul is just observing. And then to meet that hopelessness with hope. It's very easy to say that, but at a certain point if someone's looking at that hopelessness for so long, that hopelessness becomes their life.
Like you're saying, Yeshiva, how is someone... what steps does a person have to take? For example, for everyone who's in Yeshiva, like what steps did he take to make sure like that I could find that life? Finding Landers, how is that? Well, is it... maybe not in that situation? No, I think that's... I think it's very fair what you're saying. I think, you know, the definition of emotional maturity is to be able to hold two conflicting emotions at once. So when we're in a complete state of hopelessness, so then we're not accessing other aspects of our self. So really what we would want to train a guy in Yeshiva is it's totally okay that you feel hopeless. Like I get that. I would also feel hopeless. I would also want to close the Gemara. I would also want to leave Yeshiva. I would also want to like, maybe I have to leave Yeshiva and find a different Yeshiva. I would also do that.
But that would be an expression of hopelessness. Can you access other things that are present as well? Could a person be really sad? I'm meeting that hopelessness with hope. Sometimes we can find that hope within the hopelessness itself. Or sometimes we could say, and I think a lot of it comes down to the way that we speak, right? In literally, this week's parsha is Amor, right? This is the parsha of the power of speech. Yeah, but when we articulate things in a particular way, so very often that becomes our reality. Abidu, exactly right. We would much rather
Hope Reality Hope is the belief that life will certainly change. And the operating system of hope is we are actively working to pursue that change. Hopelessness is life should be better, but I don't believe that life will change. So I become passive. Because what's the difference? Nothing's going to change anyway. And when we have hopelessness, what we've said is A, you can find hope even within the hopelessness.
That's the beauty of hopelessness, is the demand for life to be better. And also, we are capable of holding two complex conflicting emotions at once. I can be hopeless and I can be hopeful. It's emotional maturity. Right, it's okay. And one more thing that really connected with me was that you define your own reality. So we can all be experiencing the same thing through four different realities. Just look at what happened to this podcast right now. We're all experiencing totally different emotions right now. Okay, the key by he's like freaking out. I'm freaking out, right? Yeah, everyone has a totally a man. I totally hear that Yeah, that's a crazy thing. Well, that's amazing. All right. Thank you for your time. Yeah, you're a good first start Hopefully we'll get more Okay, boys any any sponsorship opportunities Ellie do we have this I'm gonna reach out I'm gonna reach out I got some guys on my no, I meant is this is this are we sponsored who don't you have like a 10% coupon or something? Oh, yeah, we sponsor commies SFP temper temper so much I go to SFP podcast and watch all the podcast. Thank you so much Excellent job boys. Go ahead.
Is this shiur filed in the wrong place? Let us know.