Practical Parenting - Self Esteem (Part 2)

2:22 And where that comes from is a deep feeling of incompetence and inferiority. And so what happens is that when a person feels incompetent, or when a person feels inferior, a couple of things are going to happen. Number one, losing might become a foregone conclusion. So sometimes you'll see children who are incapable of standing up to a task. There's a challenge in front of them, and they already believe that they're not going to be successful as they negotiate this challenge. So they shy away from it. And I think on some level we can relate to this. Let's say when it comes to learning Gemara. One of the big challenges of learning Gemara is it's written in a language that many of us do not understand, and we have a difficult time translating it and vowelizing it and punctuating it. We're missing the background information, etc. And so, whenever you have a book that tells you you're stupid, most people will close the book.

3:22 What happens is that there is, and we see this in yeshiva every year. There are some talmidim that are capable of stepping up and saying, "I'm going to throw myself into this, and every day I'm going to write my notes, and I'm going to write in the words, and I'm going to write the commas and the question marks and the periods." And eventually, I'm going to learn how to master reading a Gemara. There are people that have that mentality in yeshiva. There's another group of people in yeshiva every year. Of guys who say it simply can't be done And to spend my time and energy learning a safer that I'm not going to be able to learn. It's just not worth my while, and so what they'll do is they'll find other ways of keeping themselves busy in yeshiva. But really, what's going on underneath the surface might be again there could be a lot of things. But one thing that might be going on underneath the surface is, for these people, it's already a foregone conclusion that they're not going to be able to learn. They're not going to be able to be successful. So they have a paradigm of winning and losing.

4:23 And because of their incompetence, and because of their feelings of inferiority, they don't believe in themselves that they're capable of standing up to the task. I'll share with you a personal story about this. I was very young. Or I should say I was very small when the rest of my friends had already hit their growth spurt. So when my friends were in seventh grade They were already playing basketball at a high enough level for seventh graders. I could barely play the game because I was so short. I was actually a scrawny little kid, and I wasn't able to even reach the net. Half the time I'd have to throw the ball with all of my might. And so we used to have this thing, Tuesday night groups. I don't know if they still have this in America, but every Tuesday night our shul would open up, and they would have Tuesday night groups. They had group leaders come in and they ran different things. And one of the things was gym.

5:21 And when we were little, we would play dodgeball or elimination. And even if you're not a big kid, you could always catch the ball. But when it came to basketball, I was deeply embarrassed because I just couldn't play the game with them. I actually remember that at some point I stopped going to Tuesday night groups because I knew that at some point we were going to play basketball, and I knew that I wasn't going to be able to be successful. The feeling of incompetence and inferiority led me to not play the game, to not go out with my friends. If you think about it, a lot of us were incompetent and a lot of us were inferior at playing the game of basketball at that point in our lives. And the reason is because we were We were little, but for me in my head it was I know I'm gonna lose and I can't lose, and the question is why does a child feel that way. Why is it that we have this parrot like What is wrong with losing? There's nothing really wrong with losing, and the truth is that even though we do say this to our children, right? Like I remember in Little League and feel free to chime in if you had a similar experience, but they would say to us especially when we were little. It doesn't matter if you win or lose. It's how you play the game.

6:36 You guys remember that? A walk is as good as a hit, and especially for me because I was a little kid when we were playing little league. A walk is as good as a hit meant you are not really going to be able to get on base, but nevertheless, if you can take a walk, then you'll get on there. And the truth is again It's a great message to send to kids. It's not a question of you win or lose. It's how you play the game. But we grow up, so many of us knowing that that's not true, and there's a lot of us that believe that we're going to lose. It's a foregone conclusion, and it comes from these feelings of inferiority. What's something we can do if we wanted to? If we noticed that one of our children had feelings of inferiority or incompetence, what are some of the things we can do?

7:26 So here's a couple of things. Just a couple of things, and then I'll pause for station identification. First of all, we can teach our children to value the process, and not the results. What does that mean? So you know the famous vart that they say when everyone and anyone ever makes a siyum, say anu ratzim v'heim ratzim, anu ratzim u'mekabim schar v'heim ratzim v'aina mekabim schar. We run and they run. The difference between our running and their running is when we run, we receive reward, and when the Ga'im run, they don't receive reward. So the question is, what does that mean? There's a famous var from the Chavetz Chaim, and the Chavetz Chaim says as follows: Anu ratzim veheim ratzim We're both in process. But the Jewish mentality is that we are rewarded for the process and not necessarily for the result. And that is critical when it comes to healthy parenting.

8:29 Because our children need to know that the result may often be out of our control. But if you actually did your best, that's something we should teach our children. It is a good healthy way of going through life. Sometimes you'll get stuck when it comes to this. For example, if you come home with a lousy mark on a test and your parents say to you. It doesn't matter what the test grade is as long as you do your best. And then you come home with like a seventy-five on the test. And your father gets all upset, and you say, "Dad, I did my best." What does your dad say back to you? That is not your best. So it could very well be that in that case it's appropriate to say something like that because perhaps the child did not actually do his best, and that's certainly fair.

9:22 However, we have to be really careful as parents that the message we're communicating to our children is that we value the process they're going through. In our capitalist society, we don't really do that. We're very much outcome focused. Did you make the sale at the end of the day? That's what you get. You paid for it, but in parenting, it's not just about making the sale. It's actually about the process. What can we do to teach our children that it's about the process? Number one. How do you communicate to your child? For example, we spoke already about it's not a question of win or lose. It's how you play the game. We spoke about making sure to do your best. But here's another one. Let's say your kid comes home and your kid got a ninety eight on a really hard test. What do you praise when your kid gets the ninety eight?

10:22 If you praise the mark that they got Then no matter what you say, you're teaching the child that ultimately what you value is the outcome. You don't necessarily value the reward or the process. And so the studies have shown that really what we should be doing is when a kid comes home with a ninety eight, we should say, 'Wow, I really saw you studying hard for this test. I was watching. And I can really see that your hard work paid off here, and I'm really proud of the hard work you put in.' So recognizing the child's achievement is critical. But at the same time, it's important not just to recognize the child's achievement, but to actually recognize the process that the child went through. That's one. One other point that I want to make, and then we'll pause for a moment so people can ask some questions.

11:19 Remember. The most impactful way that you're going to parent is when your children look at you and they see what you're doing. So in your life, when things go wrong Are parents blaming themselves? What thing when things went wrong, or are parents proud of the fact that they engaged in a process and then sometimes the result doesn't end up the way we wanted it to. If your children see you as a process-oriented person, then they will grow up to be process-oriented people. That's why it's important for our children to see our process and to see that we're not always successful. It's important for us to share with our children that we are human. And as a result, we also make mistakes. We have our failures, but we are resilient because we know that what we are in control of is how we engage with the process. Let's pause for a second to get some questions.

12:20 David Perlman. Um. Would Ravi say that? Sorry, I have chocolate on my face. Would Ravi say that? If you're if the kid got a ninety eight, but it was very easy for him, and like he never studies That it's an opportunity to say maybe you should start to work harder. He's gonna not want to hear that. You can say good job on the ninety eight. What would be an example of something that you So a hundred percent. There are kids who are either naturally brilliant or who are getting high marks in things that are not particularly difficult for them. So it's certainly a nice thing to say. I'm so glad you did on your test, but that's not an area where I would want to make a big deal as a parent. I wouldn't want to go all out and say be mishabeach the kid like crazy because that's not an area where there was any friction.

13:13 And it's really important. For us to recognize that when a child engages in a process, that's where we need to have our positive affirmation. So great that you got the ninety-eight on the test, but that's not maybe the area where I want to be focusing. If the kid, let's say for example, is a genius and he's getting great marks on all of his tests, but he has a harder time socially. I would want to be focusing on the child when he goes out of his way to try to make some social connections that might be really difficult for him. What I mean, David. There's a quick follow up. One kid isn't doing well in his tests, and the other one is. The kid who's doing well notices. When he's younger, he'll be younger, so he may not understand why I'm making a bigger deal over the seventy five that his younger brother worked super hard for.

13:59 Like, wouldn't that cause like a bit of like a rift in the relationship? Again, I wouldn't be focusing on the test score, and in that regard, the children are going to get praise in different areas. For example, let's say one kid got an eighty-five on a test, but they worked really, really hard to get it. And another kid is getting ninety-fives on all of his tests. I'm going to recognize kolakavod you got a ninety-five, but that night that's not where I'm going to put my energy. The kid who gets the eighty-five but worked really hard to do it, let's say because they have a learning disability and it was really, really hard for them to get that eighty-five. And I saw that they were challenging themselves. So I would want to make a big deal over that. And the older child, let's say the one who doesn't have the learning disability, will see that, but they'll see that I'm recognizing the process, and I'm going to do the same exact thing for that child in their areas of difficulty when they're stretching. Children actually naturally understand that kids are different, and believe me, they're more aware of that than you are. They look at their siblings and they say, okay, this sibling excels in this area, and this sibling doesn't excel in that area.

15:05 They know that children naturally understand that each kid is going to get what they need. What they don't like is when they feel they're being treated unfairly. But when you're praising one child and giving praise to a different child in a different way, children will understand that, especially if the message is consistent. Daniel. The question is this, all right? And that is, I'll use the example we gave before. Let's say someone who's a stockbroker. He's putting the money in the stock market. He may try all he wants, but factually, he still failed, and that caused a tremendous loss of money for his clients. What do you call it? Right. But at a certain point, I feel like it's like maybe I could be wrong, or maybe I'm not interpreting it right. It seems very nice praise for effort. But if the results aren't good, and the facts are, the results aren't good. It's not like at a certain point, like school, they're not judging you on your effort; they're judging you on your marks. Whether you like it or not, I think it's kind of just a reality, the situation.

16:12 So you're raising a very important point, and the point is this, and this is something we said a couple of shiurim ago. A parent has a responsibility to teach their children to adjust to the harsh realities of life. I think that's the point, Daniel, that you're making. And in the harsh realities of life, nobody's going to reward you for your effort. You either score or you don't score. You either make the sale or you don't make the sale. You either successfully make that trade and make money for your clients or you don't, and you're going to have to suffer the consequences of that. That's your point. So my response to that is as follows. There's no doubt that parents have to teach their children to prepare for real life. What we're not talking about here is praising failure. But there's a difference between teaching our children that they are their successes versus they are their character, and I think that's critical. That's a critical difference. So we can still teach our children that it's important to succeed.

17:16 Because at the end of the day, we want our children to be resilient enough to be able to To negotiate the harsh realities of life. But at the same time, those realities don't define them, and I think that's a really important point. Because you're right. Let's say you didn't make that trade well, and as a result, your clients lost money. As a result, you lose your job. There's no doubt. There's going to be a negative impact from that. At the same time, let's say somebody does lose their job. We hope that people don't, but let's say somebody does. So does that define their self-worth? If you've been raised in a financial paradigm, then it may very well define their worth. If you've been raised in either a 'your success or you're not a success' paradigm, then that might define your self-worth. And I think that would be a tragedy, because you should be defined based on your character more than anything.

18:10 And that's I think the difference that we're making here. We're not saying that the kid who's getting fifties on his test right is gonna succeed. We need to make sure that the children are succeeding, but we also have to make sure that they're not defined by their successes. Is that a fair answer, Daniel? I think that's where some of the confusion is. Any last questions? Five, four Three, two, one And we are going weiter. Besaiter. Now Here's another one. Nobody understands me. This is another one of the major paradigms. Of children with low self-esteem, nobody understands me, and you hear this from children all the time. You talk to a child, they'll say, "Nobody knows what I'm going through. Nobody understands me." Children are exceptionally sensitive to being understood, and here's why. Remember what we said about the fundamental nature of children. A child is an independent entity.

19:18 And because this is a lamdas rabbi say, a child in their very definition is an independent entity. And because the child is an independent entity, the avoda for the child is to develop their own identity. Part of developing an identity is being understood. So when someone lets you know that they understand what you're going through, that affirms for the child the identity they have going on in their head. Is their identity so? It's very comforting to a child when a child comes home and they're struggling with something. We'll do this on two levels. First, we'll do it for a little kid, and then we'll do it for a teenager. When a little kid comes home and he says, "I don't like to go to school. School's terrible. All we have to do is sit all day." So, and the parent doesn't take the time to make sure that the child knows that they are understood.

20:19 Then the child is unsure themselves of their identity. And therefore they don't develop their own independent identity. And that is of course mission critical if we want to raise the next generation of Jews that are going to fulfill the godly mission, because they need to develop an identity. So on a simple level, let's say when it comes to a little kid who's complaining about something, make sure that the kid understands. You understand what the kid is going through. Let's give a more sophisticated case. This is something I think a lot of you will be able to relate to. Let's say you have a teenage child. And now the teenage child is in ninth grade, and it's halfway through ninth grade. For those of you that can remember back to halfway through ninth grade, and let's say your child came into high school with a number of close friends. These are the friends that they had in elementary school. These are friends that they had in the neighborhood. And these are the friends that give them a sense of safety. They know that they're a part of this group. And now it's halfway through ninth grade, and what has begun to happen?

21:29 The child has now lost some of their friends. What starts to happen is kids move in different directions, and now new cliques start to form. This is especially true if you are raising teenage daughters. I bless you that when you do have teenage daughters, you don't have many of them be teenagers at once. As I have been blessed to have three teenage daughters in my house at once, which is why I'm holed up in this room speaking to you guys right now. Mivaseret was my safety. I used to go to yeshiva. I used to be able to get out of this crazy place. But Baruch Hashem, now I'm stuck in a room. So I'm sharing with you a little bit of my own challenges. Now it's halfway through ninth grade, the cliques are starting to form, and your daughter is in Is, has lost some dear friends who are now actively going out of their way not to be close to her, because this happens. I don't know if you know this about teenage girls. This happens that they're very clicky sometimes, and they say, okay, I used to be friends with her, and not so much. She's kind of annoying. She's not so cool, and so they make their own cliques. How do you think it feels to be the girl on the other end of that?

22:42 What is the crisis? The crisis is, I don't have friends. The crisis is, what is my identity? That's the crisis in these cases. What is my identity? Because I was so sure of who I was because I was accepted by this group of friends, and now all of a sudden I'm going through this major upheaval. And there's all these politics in the grade. You see that the girls, with the guys, it's a little bit different. But some guys have told me that this is something they experienced also. They came into high school with a group of friends, and then they shifted, so they come home. And they try to talk to their parents about it. If the parents say things like, "just do this and this," the child might feel nobody understands them. And what's terrible about that is the child more than ever is working on developing their identity.

23:40 And you're not giving them the space to be able to experience their identity. The key word here is empathy. Our avoda as parents is to create a space where children feel understood. Remember, children look up to parents because they see their parents as all powerful. And when a child loses their sense of identity, they assume that the powerful parent will not understand. So they're stuck because my parents know everything, and my parents don't understand me. So what's true here? Is my identity in question? Because my powerful parents don't understand me. Or are my parents wrong? Here, the and that's very difficult for a kid to say because parents are the security for the child. You understand. So what's critical is that the parents play an empathic role in creating space for the children. So what does that look like? Let's take the example of your teenage daughter comes home and she's saying, "I'm losing my friend group," right, and it's really scary for me. I don't know where I belong.

25:01 This is a good opportunity to share with your child that in your life you've also gone through similar things. Now that doesn't mean that you're telling the child that everything is the same. Of course, every situation is unique, but letting the child know that you see their pain. And that you've also gone through similar pain lets the child know my parents really do understand. Now again, a word of caution: be very careful here, because if your child is saying one thing and you say, 'I know, I went through something absolutely similar,' and then you give a totally different example, then the child will say, 'My parents do not understand me.' So make sure that you're validating your child's emotions. Hear the words that they're saying and reflect those words back to them. And then it's okay to share your humanity with them as well. Also, this is an opportunity, and we'll finish with this, and then we'll pause for some questions. This is an opportunity to address the issues that the child is facing, and you can give your child tips on how to handle things in a healthy way. That's different than giving advice. You're not telling your child what to do, but you can ask your child. For example, let's say they're being left out by a friend group. You can ask your child

26:27 Are these people that you want to be friends with? Are these people that you want to have a conversation with? You want a dialogue? You want to find out what it is that happened? If you're working on creating some new friends, what are some healthy ways that we can make some new friends and letting the child know I'm here for you? If you want to have a sleepover party or have people over for Shabbos, all of these things are really great opportunities to teach your children how to negotiate the harsh realities of life in a healthy way. But above all Create an empathic relationship with your child so that your child feels understood. Nachi, you had a question, I'll start with you. I have two questions. One, how does being understood solve the? Identity crisis. It seems to ameliorate the pain of it, but doesn't solve it.

27:22 It's again we're not necessarily going to be able to solve all of our children's problems. The identity crisis exists on multiple levels. One level of the identity crisis I used to have all these friends. I was so sure of my identity, and now I'm not so sure of my identity because I lost these friends. That's one level, and we can't necessarily solve that for our child. But when they come home, and we don't understand what they're going through That further creates an identity crisis. So what we can do is make sure, at the very least, the child feels understood. With the strength of that identity they've created in the home, hopefully that gives them the courage to reengage with the harsh realities of life. Maybe it means confronting some of those friends and saying, 'Hey, what happened?' Maybe it means having the courage to go over to some new girls and make friends with them. There's a lot of different ways to go. There's a lot of different solutions here. But having a strong sense of identity is what enables those kids to go back and reengage.

28:29 And this is true when kids are very young, and it's also true when kids are teenagers. And I think we see this even in adults. People have challenges in jobs, and they're getting some negative feedback from bosses or coworkers. Being able to come home, so to speak, and have a positive place where people understand you, it encourages you. It gives you that courage. Does that answer your question? Thank you, Rebi. What's the second question? Rebi speaking about identity, such that it is taloy on other people and other things. My identity is based on my friend group. My identity is based on my parents. Isn't that an unhealthy way to have an identity? Yes and no. Because obviously we're not saying that your identity is rooted in other people, but what we are saying, and I think this is a little bit different, is a subtle difference. We do have a family of origin.

29:30 And so having a strong sense of self that's rooted in that family of origin is a really healthy identity. What we know is that one of the most damaging things psychologically is a move called cut off. When people cut themselves off from other people, that's like the atomic bomb of moves. Even though you might have dropped that atomic bomb on somebody else and you've cut them out of your life, it also has a very deleterious impact on you. That's certainly true when it comes to our family of origin. And so we really need to be careful if we're employing the cut off move. With members of our family, just remember that knife is going to cut two ways. The idea here is as follows: you should be your own independent self, but especially as children are little, and even when they're teenagers, if they have an empathic relationship with their children, that child will feel that love, and it encourages that identity.

30:33 It allows them to feel. Safe in the identity that they've developed for themselves. But does Rebbe think that it's a good idea to teach a child that Regardless of their friends, they still have a strong identity and meaning. Rebbe's talked about before how, if you lose something in your life and that affects your identity, then that's a problem Right? So. That's. That's what we want. We want you to get to a stage where, whether you've won or whether you've lost, your identity remains intact. Of course, but that's a high level. That's something that you can speak to somebody who's really maturing already, like as an adult. But a ninth grade, we don't realize how little ninth grade kids are. A fourteen year old kid is probably not capable of doing that, especially when they lose some important friends in their life. It's certainly true of a six Seven- and eight-year-old But again, you see it even in Nachi. If I'm being honest, you see it even in Israel.

31:41 When guys come to yeshiva and when girls come to seminary, we always see it's very cute to watch, and I'm sure you saw this when you were Shana Bet. It's very cute to watch the Shana Olaf guys get off the plane in the beginning of the year, and they're really unsure of themselves because they have this identity that they've cultivated in high school, and now they're like, okay, will my identity be accepted by my peers? And so there's this really uncomfortable part in the beginning of the year where guys are like, 'Do I belong? Don't I belong? Did I choose the right yeshiva? Am I in the right she'er? What does being in this she'er say about me?' All of those questions are questions that go to whether I have the courage to stand firm in my identity. Thank you. Shlomo Mizels. Hi, how are you doing?

32:29 Baruch Hashem, doing great. Thank you for asking. Very nice. How are you? I'm doing quite fine. Thank God. You mentioned before that the atomic bomb has the knife cuts both ways. Can you explain in which ways one can get cut in both ways? Again, obviously, there are situations where it's inappropriate. If somebody is coming from an abusive person in their life, it may be very reasonable for them to say, 'This is no longer a person I can engage with.' I'm not saying that it's never appropriate, but being strongly rooted in our family, that's just psychologically the way we're designed, and so our tree has roots, and the roots are our family. And when a person cuts off one of those roots, we may think that it has no impact on us, but we're no longer being nourished by that root. A good friend of mine had a very funny line.

33:30 And I don't know that I like the line, but I think it's a cute thing to say. He said, "Family is a group of people that you would never choose to live with, but you can't live without." " Right, and you know, for not for all families, but for some families, there's that one family member that you look at them and go like. I just don't like you. I would never choose to be friends with you. I don't know how to be with you. I'm even looking at some of your faces right now and watching some of you crack up, and it's nice to know that I'm speaking to people who maybe have similar experiences. With all of that, you may not be so close to your sibling. But when families are torn apart because one sibling no longer speaks to another sibling, or a sim, or a child stops speaking to their parents.

34:18 It's you. You lose a sense of that root, and that impacts the identity of the child, and they don't have whom to be dependent on. There's one thing I'll tell you. In a crisis Even if you don't necessarily like your sibling, they'll be there for you because the bond of a family is a very strong bond. It's how we survive. And losing that sense of dependence. It can really take its toll on a person having to be so independent. It can be damaging. What about for the other side? If a child or a parent loses a child, or a sibling loses another sibling, then they've also lost that anchor, because their identity is also wrapped up in the other person. In other words, they also have a strong tie. Let's say I felt abused by another person, so I cut myself off from them. That's certainly reasonable, but at the same time, the person I now cut myself off from is also missing that root. They're also missing that sense of strength that comes with being part of a family unit that will be there for each other.

35:31 So it certainly cuts both ways. So what's the shot with divorce then? I think that's something we're seeing now more than ever. In the early two thousands and in the late nineties, there was in the psychological community a movement that said it's better for children to be in divorced families where the parents are happy than to be a part of families where the parents are miserable but married. And so that was for a couple of years that was the way we spoke and then. The studies came out on what it was like to grow up in those families, and it turns out it's exactly the opposite. Of course, people ideally should be growing up in a home of shalom bias, but when parents unfortunately get divorced, and again there are situations where divorce is appropriate, but when parents get divorced, it creates a massive lack of safety for the children, and the children are bouncing back and forth, and they don't know what they say to one parent is going to be taken in a particular way.

36:31 And it can be very difficult for a child. And if you've had the opportunity to To speak to people in this area, it can be very difficult to be a part of a divorced family. Not a simple thing at all. And they lose that sense of identity. Shlomo And then Daniel. So you mentioned that it's a thing that the parents should share their own experiences and their own humanity. When it's appropriate. What would be an example of when it would be inappropriate? There's definitely such a thing as sharing too much because children do not need to know everything about their parents. But let's say you have a ninth grade girl who again lost some friends and she's going through a tough transition, and she's talking to her mother about it. It's certainly appropriate for a mother to say after having validated the child extensively and making sure that the child knows that you understand the child's emotions. It's also okay to say to the child.

37:35 When I was in ninth grade, I remember going through something similar, and it was a really hard time. The child can hear that and feel like wow, people go through this, and even my powerful parents also went through this, and just like they were okay. I'll be okay, and that's something really encouraging to a child. I wouldn't necessarily share humanities with children that are inappropriate, and you see sometimes this happens that parents will share things with their children that where the child actually loses respect for the parent, or will now be willing to engage in inappropriate behaviors because hey, my parents did the same thing. That's not appropriate parenting. So I guess those are both Black and white examples. What about examples that fall in the middle? Give me an example. Give me an example. Your child went to a party and got drunk. So I think in that case, it's an excellent opportunity to have serious conversations with the child about what was going on and why they engaged in that behavior.

38:46 And I think that it might not be a good idea to say when I was in eleventh grade I did the same exact thing. That might not be the best time to have that conversation. Because the goal of the conversation is fundamentally different. That's not a question of letting the child know that you understand them, especially when you might be reinforcing a negative behavior. But don't you think then, if it's only with certain experiences that everyone goes through, such as having a friend group fall apart, almost most people have that. What about more niche things? And the child is going to explain to their parents how they feel and does not. I don't say not telling the truth, but not saying their own experience I've had this too. But again, it could be that it's appropriate. But remember, it's not just because I didn't experience the same thing as you doesn't mean we can't be connected. If the parent is truly being empathic and letting the child know I really hear you, and they're using all of that reflective language, and they're repeating back what the child said and really checking in with the child throughout the conversation. Then even if I didn't have the same experience, it's possible to feel very helped. And again, even with niche things. So let's say, for example, let's say someone suffers from anxiety.

40:01 And they're sharing with their parent about their anxiety. It might be appropriate in that case to say, I also grew up suffering from anxiety, because that might let the child feel more understood. But even if they don't, it doesn't mean that the child can't be understood by the parent. And both of those examples with the friend group and anxiety, the parent when they were a kid, nothing they did was wrong. That's the point. I wouldn't necessarily do that if I'm disciplining my child over something they did wrong. I don't think that's the greatest opportunity to tell your child, 'I also did the thing that was wrong.' I'm not sure that that's a good time to do that because the point of that conversation is to curb the negative behavior. So I'm not sure that would because otherwise, what might happen is the child hears that and says. Big deal. My parents are upset at me, but honestly, they did the same exact thing.

40:55 Daniel. They turned out okay. Exactly. Daniel. Um. My question is this. So in the morning, just a little background. In the morning, for Taralacha, we've been doing Tefillah and. Right. So this whole concept, the parent said a kid isn't a forty-six person. The parent comes in and tears his suit, tears his tie, whatever. Basically, make a fool of him. The kid isn't supposed to say anything. My question is how that is psychologically healthy for the kid. They simply be a pawn of their parent. I don't think a parent would do that, but the fact that they're able to without any kind of repercussion is damaging. I'm not sure. Again, can you just repeat for me? Because I'm not sure I understand the case that you're bringing. What exactly is the case? Somebody could correct me if I'm saying it wrong. But basically, I remember Roshan was mentioning this. If the kid is an important person and the parent comes in and tears his suit or base, I guess in some degrees makes somewhat of a fool of him.

41:57 The kid shouldn't say anything back to embarrass his parent. That you're saying the child should not embarrass the parent. They should just take it. Huh. Huh. So my question is how that is psychologically healthy for kids? Daniel. Can I ask a question? Help me understand the connection between your question and what we've been speaking about. The question is that the parents understand the kid and that they're own independent identity and having that. That they're independent of the parents, and they have their own identity. If a parent, I guess you could say, could theoretically do that In quote unquote Get off scot free, if you want to call it that. But why? Why? I just think there's something a little bit twisted in the question. Does the halacha say that a parent is allowed to embarrass a child? Right. So that's definitely not the halacha. In fact, it's on my list of things to talk about. That even when a parent is disciplining a child, they have no right to do so in a way that shames or embarrasses the child. So you're speaking about a case where a parent did something shaloka halacha, right? The same halacha that says that the child shouldn't speak back tells the parent they shouldn't embarrass the child, and then there's an ethic that's on top of that. Which is we're teaching our children, and I think this is an important. The kudan it's a subtle difference.

43:15 Children are not the bale achrayus for their parents to determine whether or not they go quote unquote scot free. That's not our role as children to hold our parents accountable. And so, as a child who, let's say, is chas v'shalom embarrassed or shamed by a parent, the child should, from an ethical perspective, respond appropriately by not calling their parent to task. But if the parent is an abusive parent, then we have to ask ourselves, okay, so what? What exactly is going to be the nature of this relationship? There's a difference between those two things. I don't think that anybody is suggesting that a parent is allowed to embarrass a child, and the halacha says that that's okay, and a child should just not respond. That is definitely not my understanding of the halacha. Nachi, get to your question one second, because Jonathan Goldberg had a question. Jonathan.

44:17 Back to when you were saying, when there was a kid who had a problem when he comes into ninth grade with his friends. So if the kid is like very shy And the parents know that he has a problem in school. And the kid doesn't. So that's an excellent question, Jonathan. And a person has to be really, really careful in this regard because they may see their child suffering from that shyness And they really want to help the kid solve that problem. But on the other hand, the parents might not be a safe enough place to have that conversation, and the child himself might not be ready to have that conversation. A person may have to get very creative in the way that they parent in that regard. It might involve the school. It might involve a rabbi or a teacher. It might involve hiring a mentor for the kid. If the kid is not willing to speak to the parents, there's a lot of things we can do.

45:20 Again, sometimes therapy can be helpful in such a case. I would only caution you that when you send your children to therapy when they're very young, it may help them, or they may just avoid therapy for the rest of their lives. I would encourage someone in such a case to really start to think creatively. Because we want to help our children But there's a lot of safety that has to come first. So there's a reason why that kid is not willing to speak to the parents. What's going on that the kid is not willing to speak to the parents? We have to get to the underlying cause. And Nachi, you had a question. Thank you, Rabbi. No problem. Rabbi, what should one So that's an interesting question because I wonder why that is. Why is it that they don't understand the child? The truth of the matter is that almost everything that people do is really understandable. This might be hard to wrap your head around at first, but when a person actually explains what's going on for them, it's pretty understandable. Almost all things are pretty understandable.

46:31 Understandable doesn't mean that you agree, or that you think the choice is working well for them. But I would really question the parent that just simply cannot understand. It might take some work to put yourself on the other side of that. Once you put yourself on the side of the child, these things can be really understandable. Let's say you're a forty year old parent and your six year old is unwilling to go out and make new friends. As a forty year old, you might have the courage that a six year old doesn't have. But put yourself in a six-year-old position. Life is really hard. You don't know where things are coming from. Life can be really complex. Simchasron. Coming back, that's what we were talking about before. You see, your kid just coming back drunk from a party. Maybe that's not the right time to say, "Oh, I did this when I was your age."

47:21 But is there ever a time, or is this always going to be inappropriate to say to your kid? You're going to high school now. When I went to high school, I went to some parties and I got drunk. Looking back, see why that was so bad? Why I shouldn't do that? Is that ever appropriate, or will your kids just be like, yeah, whatever? You're just my parent. You don't know anything. I think probably the latter. I think it's probably the latter when it comes to having a kid entering ninth grade and so you start to tell them, yeah when I was your age I did these things but looking back it was a mistake. I think most kids are gonna go great. I'm looking forward to doing that and learning that by myself. So I'm not sure that's necessarily going to be, and I see some of you nodding your heads along. So I think you agree with me. I'm not sure that's the time to have that conversation. Again, I don't think that parents have to portray themselves as perfect.

48:10 But I'm not sure what the value really is of going out and telling your kids about all of your averes. It doesn't mean that you can't understand them and be empathic and be gentle and be soft and create a loving place for them. I just don't necessarily think that you need to tell them, Hey, when I was fifteen years old, these are all the averes I did. I'm not sure if that really is going to help the kid. Is there a proactive way to steer kids away from that, or just setting a good example at home and things like that? I think it's not just setting a good example. I think setting a good example is an amazing thing to do, and I think also when a kid has a strong bond at home, and the kid feels like this is an awesome place to be, then they're going to naturally through osmosis incorporate those values, and so when faced with the challenge of do I do this thing that made me cool with my peers, or do I stay true to the values that I was raised with? If the home is a really positive place, full of love and warmth and light and empathy, I think more often than not The children are going to choose to stay with the values that they were raised with. This doesn't mean that children aren't going to make a mistake. As parents, we're not in control of whether or not they do the action. We're just in control of what happens until that point and how we respond afterwards. Rabo said we're gonna stop here for tonight, and Beizer Hashem looking forward to picking this up again tomorrow.