NCSY Staff Training

2:32 Befrat is a wonderful book that I'm reading right now. I don't know if any of you have heard of it. It's called The Quest for Authenticity. You have it upstairs. I got it from your brother. It speaks about how in Pshischa the whole Mahalach of Pshischa, the whole Mahalach of the Yidakadosh of Rvsim Chabunim of the Katsker was the notion of Hachana to the degree that in Pshischa, even though it's not necessarily halachic, they equated the notion of the preparation for the mitzvah with the mitzvah itself, to the degree that it could even supersede the mitzvah, which is, of course, that was a tremendous area of hisnagdos in the world. But the idea that we're spending a Shabbos preparing ourselves is no small thing, and I think it's very easy sometimes in these types of situations to have a little bit of a cynical attitude. I have to go for Shabbos. I'm working in NCSY, so I have to go for Shabbos.

3:31 And I wanted to be elsewhere. I have a few Shabbosos left in yeshiva, left in my time, but I have to be here. But I think what Rabbi Lippud said is 100% correct. The opportunity to really prepare yourself is no small thing. You clearly have a tremendous amount of talent that's with you for Shabbos. Use the opportunity to pick the brains of the people that you're going to be with, because chinuch is a complex thing. And having the opportunity to ask questions, I wish I would have had that opportunity. When I was starting out, we never had staff training. We've come a long way. The idea, if you can, to pick the brain of the people that you're with for Shabbos, people who have been in the field, people who have been doing this, it's a tremendous opportunity to prepare yourself. And it's not as if anything you ask is necessarily going to happen either. It's just more of the bechyna of like getting yourself in the right mindset. And there'll be things that come up over the summer that you'll want to know.

4:29 How do I deal with this? If this NCSYer comes to me with this question, with this problem, with this challenge, what is the right way of approaching it? In a general sense, you could prepare yourself this Shabbos, and in a more particular sense, you could also have the opportunity to prepare yourself that when you go on your program, to be able to go to the head of your program and to be able to say, 'I'm encountering this issue. It's no small matter.' So, really, use this as an opportunity for a springboard this summer to ask important questions. I just want to share with you a quick verb, but I think it's an important verb. The Rambam in the Sefer HaMitzvos speaks about loving Hashem. Most of us probably have heard of the Rambam Shita that a person comes to love Hashem through becoming aware of the wonders of his creation. You look at the Neflois Haborei. A person could fall in love with the Eibaster.

5:23 Say Rabbi in yeshiva Hershel, who spoke a couple weeks ago, and he pointed out that in every apple there's five seeds, and that means that six generations later, one apple produces 3.1 trillion apples. Every apple contains within it 3.1 trillion apples. The precision of the universe. If gravity was just a little bit heavier, everything would implode upon itself. If gravity was a little bit lighter, everything in the world would just fall away. So the Rambam speaks of you. If you think about the precision of creation, so a person comes to fall in love with the Eibushder. That's the part that most people know about the Rambam. But the Rambam says something else that's more nogeya to us today. He says that part of the mitzvah of coming to know Hakadosh Baruch Hu is bringing people closer to Hashem.

6:16 And telling people about the Rebbeinu Shlom's chesed in this world, telling the Rebbeinu, telling people about the Rebbeinu Shlom's mercy in this world. In other words, a person comes to know Hashem not only in the vacuum of science, which today Baruch Hashem there's a lot of science, but there's a problem that exists in the world today, and whether you guys know it or not, you are the solution to that problem. We can't get people to go into chinuch. We can't get you guys to go into chinuch. Why that's true? I have my theories. I don't know if any of them are true. I never did any scientific research, but it seems to me that we live in an increasingly consumeristic culture, and in the market Orthodox Judaism in which we live today, there's been some sort of primacy placed upon financial stability, and the notion that

7:15 Rabbi Liebowitz, myself, all the rabbi and the Rabbi Liebowitz mentioned, we didn't go into Chinuch for the money. We went into Chinuch because there's an expression of Ahavas Hashem that exists within Chinuch, that a person comes to know Hakadosh Baruch Hu by passing it on. I think, and I said this when I was in Connecticut for Shabbos a couple weeks ago with the people who are doing staff training. I think we make a terrible mistake. When we suggest that the answer to the crisis of people not going into chinuch is to pay people more money, I have a vested interest in that answer being true. You have a vested interest in that answer being true, but that's not going to work. If we come to people and we say, 'Now we're willing to pay twenty thousand more dollars, thirty thousand more dollars,' anyone that would come because that's now the reason are not the people that we want in the field.

8:15 The people that we want in the field deserve to get paid well. They do. They give leiv and nefesh. As you will get a taste of this summer with your NCSYers, you will give leiv and nefesh to these kids. When you're tired and they want to talk, you'll push yourself to make space for them. When you hold space for them as they're speaking and you allow them to be in a non-judgmental, safe environment to be able to be whoever they are, to listen carefully to their stories, that can be exhausting. But you'll do it because it's like a natural thing to do, and of course you deserve to get paid for that. Of course, but the answer to the chinuch crisis is to make it a part of our avodas Hashem. How could it be that it's not a part of our avodas Hashem? How could that be? Avraham Avinu was chosen to be Avraham Avinu, like the pasuk tells us, because he was a person who could give over the masorah to Klal Yisro. So we're running around; everyone's doing these.

9:12 Fancy studies, and you have everyone getting up in the OU, and they're talking about the crisis. The solution is, from a very young age, to start teaching people like yourself that this is a fundamental part of your avodas Hashem. One of the scariest vorts that I've ever heard in my life is from the Lubavitcher Rebbe Zechariah Meckadash of Racha. The Rebbe said that galus began when Yosef HaTzaddik was thrown into a pit. And Ruvein was doing tshuva for an avera that he had done over 20 years earlier. When we place our own frumkeit ahead of the fact that one of our brothers is languishing in a pit, that's when exile begins. And in speaking with people like Rav Derek Gorman, who tell me that there's, I think he said the number, if I'm not mistaken, I could be misquoting, but if I'm misquoting, I'm misquoting on the lower end.

10:11 Speaking with Rabbi Gorman last summer, he told me that there's 15,000 Jewish public school kids in his region. 15,000 kids, and he can't reach them. Not because of money. He can't reach them because he doesn't have the manpower to reach them. How could that be? How could we look ourselves in the mirror and say, my brother is languishing in a pit, but you know, financial stability. Of course, financial stability is important, but your brother is languishing in a pit. But what about the hashpah? What about the influence? I understand, but your brother is languishing in a pit. If that was your sibling, what would you do? And to me, it's personal. It's personal because I was an NCSYer, because I know the value of what a good advisor can do. It's personal because my mother was an NCSYer. She came from a public school background, and I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the people that were mashpia on her and on my father.

11:09 And you should know that those people, who were mashpia, and my parents, became the leaders of our community. Richard Joel, the former president of YU, was my father's advisor. Rabbi Yaffe Buckwald runs a major kiruv organization. I don't know if you guys know Rabbi Buckwald runs a major kiruv organization. He was my mother and father's advisor. I grew up with these names of the people that my parents were mashpia from YU seminar, from NCSY, from Chabad. All those people were young. They were your age. Rabbi Kenny Davis, Rabbi Riskin, Rabbi Avi Weiss. These were all people your age at some point doing this type of work, and they became leaders in the community because of the fact that they gave to Klal Yisrael. Rabbi Manis Friedman. My mother spent the summer in Minnesota. Chinuch.

12:07 It's done because we are of the Hashem. It's people who are dedicated to Hakadosh Baruch Hu, and as a result of their dedication to Hakadosh Baruch Hu, the overflow of love of Hashem means if I love Hashem, I love His children. I want to share with you that this is the chiluk between charisma and authenticity. If I can share with you one thing this summer, it's please do not try to be charismatic. First of all, it doesn't work. I'm sure you know yourself. It's like you ever see someone who gets up talking about something. Someone gets up and they're like a very charismatic speaker, and it's like the foolish people in the audience are kind of excited by it, but most intelligent people don't get excited by charisma. And also, if they do, I promise you, it doesn't last. Because at best, charisma creates excitement, and excitement doesn't last. What we're looking for is inspiration. People say inspiration doesn't last. They're confusing inspiration and excitement. Inspiration lasts a lifetime. Inspiration can only come when one authentic person meets another authentic person. When somebody gets up and they just have a natural overflow, a natural enthusiasm for serving the Rebbeinu Shalom, I want you to know that your chachim will notice. They'll see it, and it will impact them.

13:37 I had the privilege of being in the van on the way here with Rabbi Cohen, and he mentioned an old chaver of his who was one of my NCSY advisors back in the day. This particular NCSY advisor was like a real Frum guy. He was like a real serious guy. He lives in Kiryat Sefer today. He's like Frum and Kiryat Sefer. You guys understand there are levels here. I don't mean closer or farther to Hashem. I just mean there are levels. There are people that eat herring and go to mikvah and have kehil, and there are people that don't. There are levels. We're not. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I'm just saying there are levels. He's a real deal Jew. Am I exaggerating? This is a man who's dedicated to serving Hashem. It didn't hurt that he was also an incredible basketball player back in the day.

14:32 He was incredibly strong. He was a good basketball player back in the day, but for us, he was like this big, big ball player. And I want you to know that what attracted me to him was not his charisma. I don't think he's particularly charismatic. But the reason why I remember he was sitting by a tree on spring regional, and there were like 15 of us gathered around him, and there were certainly advisors that were more charismatic and dynamic, but we were sitting around him because he had Tyra. I'm talking about like sometimes you meet someone and they're just like they're not. I don't mean to say that we all have to be tochel kibaroh, but I'm saying there are people that have made the investment in themselves to be people that are serving Hashem, and this guy made that investment. And when he spoke from that place, and it had a tremendous hashpa. This is a vart, a beautiful vart. We say every year in the

15:29 In the Pesach Hagada, that the Ein Yodea Lishol, our responsibility is at petachlo. What does that mean, at petachlo? I saw this year of art, beautiful art. At petachlo means if you want to be able to have an influence on somebody, they should begin to go on the journey of asking questions in their own life. At petachlo, you have to work on yourself. It's turning inwards. It's saying, okay, if I'm with this person and they're not moving, it's because I'm not moving, and it becomes an opportunity. And you should know that for the real deal parents who lo aleno have children, who let's say are not following in the ways of the footsteps of our forefathers, or perhaps they're broadening the road of the footsteps of our forefathers. Those parents that have to deal with that, if they're really dealing with it, you should know they fundamentally change, and it's an incredible thing to watch, because instead of looking on the outside and blaming their friends and blaming the community.

16:27 Those people turn inwards and they become like extremely rectified people. Many, many years ago, before these things were common, before we had organizations that dealt with these things, a friend of mine passed away from overdosing. It was in the early 90s, and he was like the first kid in the community to have issues. He was a kid who grew up in my shul, and he was a neighborhood kid, and everybody kind of knew that he was like going in a certain way. I don't think we realized to the extent of it. I remember the day that I found out. I think I was in ninth grade. We didn't have cell phones back then. There were no WhatsApps. I got in the car to go to carpool in the morning, and my best friend at the time, his name was Chaim. Chaim's sister had been dating this young man.

17:24 Chaim got in the car and he was devastated. And look on his face, Chaim, what happened? Tommy Yenam passed away. Couldn't believe it. We didn't have such things back then. It wasn't common. We didn't know about it. It was a big shakeup to the community. A lot of organizations started because of that. But I want to share with you that one thing that I always paid attention to. His father was a regular, normal Balabatish guy. And the change in his father after that was dramatic, and not in the way that we would have expected. Not in the way of like he became super from or super not from. You just saw a man who went to work on himself. It manifested itself, and he had a much longer beard, but that wasn't what it was. He davened with a certain alchit, a certain gentleness.

18:20 In times of crisis, we go to work on ourselves. You have an opportunity this summer to be an atpetachlo type of person. The funny thing about these types of programs is you have guys in yeshiva and they're making the cheshbon: Should I learn in the summer or should I work in the summer? And I want you to know that there's of course value to sitting and learning in the summer, and absolutely go ahead if you're doing that, gevaledik, that's great. But I just want you to know that if you don't take the opportunity in the summers of your life to work with kids, you're losing out on a tremendous amount of growth. There is no growth like sitting with a kid, and when something comes up for you, and a kid says something that's triggering you.

19:04 And it's like the hardest kid to deal with because you're trying to get the kids excited, and he's the one kid in your chabura that knows how to make exactly the wrong joke at the wrong time to have that little Amalekite type of moment to take the entire chabura down. You know this kid? Looking around, some of you in the room, where is this kid? Maybe like five of you, not from this section of the room. There's like that, and like yeah. And if we're being honest with ourselves, there's a part of you that wants to look at that kid and go really, and you want to roast that kid, and you want to lay into that kid, and it's not coming from a great place in yourself. You should know if you hold that moment, if you hold it and you breathe through it, and you hold on to that, and then you go back to somebody, you go back to someone like Rabbi Epstein, and you say okay, I need you to hold space with me for a second. I really don't like this kid. And Rabbi Epstein, in his very therapeutic way, will turn it around on you very gently and very nicely, like Carl Rogers. He'll ask you curious questions.

20:03 And within ten minutes, you'll be like, 'Yeah, my mother did that to me.' What do they say in psychology, Rabbi Epstein? If it's not one thing, it's your mother. This is a tremendous opportunity for growth for you guys. I'm so jealous of the people in this room. Sometimes I think maybe the older mechanchim in the room could share this, but I'm not speaking for you, Rabbi. But I'm confident you'll agree. You could have beef for breakfast. For sure, you could have latkes for breakfast, but only if you post it on Twitter. The greatest growth that's happened in the lives of rebbeim is.

21:02 Is the work that we are privileged to do with our talmidim, and that's what Chazal mean, perhaps, when they say Har be'lamadatim erabaisem et talmidei yaisirimikula. I learned the most from my talmidim, because we change when we work with people. We do. It changes us. I shudder to think sometimes what would be in my life if I wouldn't have had the opportunity to work with people. It's like a constant avida of Things are coming your way, and things are coming up, and refining yourself, and working on yourself—it's no small matter. So you're very, very privileged. You're very privileged to have the opportunity this summer to turn inside of yourself and to use this as an opportunity for your own personal growth. I only want to share with you one last thing. Really, I have a lot more to say here, but I'd rather just talk like a normal human being—questions and answers. This Gemara in Baba Metzia,

21:57 I saw this Gemara this morning, and it occurred to me I have to share this with you. So I messaged Rav Natanal if he could have it printed again, just because such a beautiful Gemara. The Gemara says that Rav Yudanassi arrived at the house of Rav Elazar, who was the son of Rav Shimbar Yochai. And Rav Yudanassi asked, he said, "Does that righteous person, referring to Rav Elazar, have a son?" And they said yes. He has a son, but unfortunately, I'm not going to get into the details. You can learn the Gemara inside if you want to see the details. He had a son who was behaving. Please come in. It's okay. It's with friends. He had a son who was behaving inappropriately, and the Gemara tells us that Rabbi Yudanassi decided that he was going to help this son be chayzer b'tshuva, the grandson of Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, the son of Rabbi Elazar.

22:54 So he brought him back with him to his town, and he gave him smicha, and called him a rabbi, and he gave him a chavrusha. The chavrusha that he gave him was Rishim ben Issi ben Lakonia, who was the boy's uncle. It's a very strange story. He gave him smicha. What did he do to deserve smicha? Is that he went to YU, he had classes in rabbinical training and counseling. Doesn't appear from the Pashut Chat of the Gemara that he did anything to deserve this. And while the boy was learning by Rishim Benisi, he had thoughts every day: "I should go home. I should go back off the derech. I don't want this." Gemara tells us that Rishim Benisi said to him, "You've been given wisdom. You have a golden cloak. Not sure exactly what that means, but you have a golden cloak that's protecting you."

23:51 From the time that Rav Yudanassi gave you smicha, and you're called by the title of rabbi, you really going to go back to your town? And he takes a shvua. The boy takes a shvua. The grandson of Rishon Bayochai takes a shvua that he will not abandon the Torah, and he's going to continue to improve himself. It's a strange story. What in the world is going on over here? But I believe that we can say with some degree of certainty that Rav Yudanassi was teaching us a fundamental idea in Chinuch and something that's going to be critical to us this summer. When we see someone who's having trouble, when you see that kid in your chabura who's not giving you the attention that the material deserves, and that he's behaving in a particular way, you should know that the answer to that question is not to tell him, you're doing the wrong thing, because he already knows he's doing the wrong thing. Don't tell kids they're doing the wrong thing; they know they're doing the wrong thing.

24:45 But you tell a kid like that, come. I'm gonna tell you something about yourself. I'm gonna give you a title of rabbi. What did the kid do to deserve the title of rabbi? The answer is he did nothing to deserve the title of rabbi. But he was telling him that we could be. He's saying in my mind this is you're already there. You just need to become that person. But at some you already have it inside of you. And he set him up with a chavruta, because to give to tell a kid you're awesome, but then not to give him the tools for success. It doesn't help. You spend six weeks with a kid in the summer, and you tell him you're awesome. But at the end of the year, at the end of the summer, he goes back to his year, and he doesn't have you as a chavruta. He doesn't have a place to go to continue to learn. You haven't done anything for him. You just told him like this is who you could be. So he sets him up with a chavruta, a choshav a chavruta, a family member. He's bringing him back into the family. And then you should know that kid will have doubts about himself. And our responsibility in those moments to say.

25:43 This is who you are. There's a shmirah that you have. Rav Yudan Nasi believed in you. That's our responsibility. If this is coming from a place of avos Hashem, our responsibility is to teach these children who they really are. These children are the ben yachid of Hakadosh Baruch. In some ways, chinuch is as simple and as sophisticated as that. There's a very well known NCSY rabbi whose name is Rabbi Zucker. You guys know NCSY sports people. You know Moshe Zucker, yeah. You know Rabbi Zucker. He's a man. There's no other. He's Zucker. I remember the first time I met him. I was so scared of him. He's like the nicest guy in the world. But I was like, you just heard the legends of him. And my wife worked in the NCSY office when we were dating, and so I had to pick her up on a date at the NCSY office. She made me come in to meet the people that she was working with. It was going well, so I mean, I guess it worked out. But I went into the office, and she had warned me that Zucker was there. He's this like mountain of a man, and I'm not exaggerating. The Rabbi Epstein, who is, and he's like cool, a warmth. He's like exactly the opposite. You meet him, and he's like, boy, Zucker, and like he shakes your hand, but then like he.

27:10 Like sits down with you and he's like in five seconds you're like his best friend it's the craziest thing in the world. There's a ma'aseh that Rabbi Green told about him last year, that NCSY New Yorker went out and bought earrings and got his ears pierced, and he came to Rabbi Zucker to show him his new earrings and supposedly Rabbi Zucker pulled out his wallet and gave the kid money and said, "Do me a favor, go buy a special pair of kavod shabbos." That was his immediate response. So on the NCSY Shabbaton a couple of weeks ago.

27:40 Rabbi Green came over to me and he said, "Rabbi Zucker just made the entire Shabbaton unnecessary. Just like wiped out, like all the training, everything they did, all the thousands upon thousands of dollars of bringing in all the speakers." He said, "Made the entire Shabbaton unnecessary." So I said to Rabbi Green, "Okay, how did he do that?" So he got up in front of the kids from NCSY Sports, the advisors, and he said, "Chaver, just be kind. That's the whole thing. Just be kind. Just be kind to these kids." And on some level, it's as true as that. If you meet a kid, just be kind. Tell him that he's somebody, and be with him, be his chavrusa, and beis Hashem we'll be zeicha this summer. Not chas v'shalom to make anybody do anything, but we'll be zeicha that we can take the next steps of the journey together with our NCS wires. So now we'll do the awkward silence thing.

28:38 See who has a question first. You're supposed to wait a couple minutes until it gets awkward. I have a joke that I make in awkward silence moments. There's a new awkward. 2023. We're not allowed to speak about that awkward. I'll leave that to other people who have more mental health training. Do you have a guy or other guys who aren't part of the program but in a specific activity? How important is it that they should be part of the group? And what are some ways to Well, first of all, I think that's a great question, and it's not up to me to answer that question because I don't know what the situation is, and I don't know what the program directors believe that level of responsibility should be. And I would imagine that's going to be different things for different people, and I would imagine that different programs will have different rules and different structures. But what I will say is this: if there are kids that are off to the side and not participating, that's.

29:36 A tremendous opportunity for number one reflection: What are we doing that these kids are not there? Because there's a need that they have, and we're clearly not servicing them. I spoke to Rabbi Liebowitz about this a number of years ago. We were talking about the challenge of guys in yeshiva not necessarily coming to davening, and you know, the easy answer is like, okay, so we're going to discipline guys that don't come to davening, but Rabbi Levi was pointed out, and he was 100% right. It's a chinuchish. Like, why don't they want to come to davening? What are we doing wrong that these kids don't want to go to davening? Because the Jewish soul naturally davenes. So we have to ask ourselves the question: What's going on? And number two, it's also a tremendous opportunity to be curious about what their experience is. So if a kid is not going to davening,

30:29 And you talk to him about it in a real non-judgmental way. A real non-judgmental way means that you can't go in already saying the goal of this conversation is to manipulate the kid to get into davening, because that's not an authentic conversation, and nobody should ever be a part of a conversation like that. That's not nice to people. That's not kind. If you're going to talk to somebody, go talk to them. And if they tell you davening is boring, what do they mean by that? When you unpack that, I'll share with you. I don't mind sharing this. It's a little vulnerable, but I'm pretty open about it. It took me years to understand this about myself. But one of the challenges that I had in davening growing up was not a challenge that I even knew about necessarily. But I have sensory issues. I don't like clothing is hard. I'm saying I don't mean I'm walking around inappropriately dressed. But with you, given the opportunity in my house to wear shorts and a t-shirt or these shorts and a t-shirt.

31:26 It's I like less and my body. There are certain kids like that. For me, growing up, I didn't know. I didn't have the words to articulate. Tefillin can be uncomfortable, especially if you're very little. I was a very little kid. These are the days before human growth hormone, so I just had to wish myself taller. Now every tenth grader in TABC is dunking to their elbow. Sorry, Joe. So it's not like give him a fire and brimstone and moster shmoos. Like maybe something is going on. Like I went to more yeshivish elementary school for a couple years, which I loved, and I had come from Haftar before that, so it was like a fascinating transition. For me, balancing—you ever see the yeshivish like head, like the hat back of the tefillin move? That's a complicated move. You know what I'm talking about? That's like requires athleticism. You have to put on your tefillin, and somehow you have to get the jacket draped over without all your tefillin falling off.

32:25 Which is why they do like the weird button thing. Somehow it's like a covered for tefillah if your sleeve is like falling off to the side. Not exactly sure how that works. And then you have like the hat perched on the back, and if it's not exactly the right size, and you're like, you know what is really? I just thought of this. It's like back in the day they used to send women to those schools to walk upright and have the proper posture. That's what is for yeshivish kids to walk around. You have to like how do you shackle and hold that thing on the back? You see kids all the time like.

32:56 Maybe kids just don't like to have things on them. It could be something that you never expect. You'll hear all the things. You'll hear all the words that they say. I don't understand what I'm saying. This seems ridiculous. I'm saying the same thing every day. That's a tremendous opportunity to have a great conversation about what tefillah is. Sometimes from the broken place, let's say of a kid is not davening. Like for me, learning that the word pallel meant imagination. And that davening was a process of how we imagine the world, the changes that we go through as we reimagine what the world should look like, and how we want to participate in it. That's actually how davening became meaningful to me. So I'm so thankful that my davening was terrible for so many years, because it gave me an opportunity to learn about what davening really ought to be. And so I'll be very honest with you. Sometimes the kids that are participating in the programs scare me a lot more than the kids that are not.

33:48 Because the kids who are participating in the programs, you might not know that those kids have good boy syndrome. Good boy syndrome means they grow up their entire life and they have to be a good boy. They have to be, because their entire identity is built on that. And there's this covert anxiety that exists underneath the surface that they're not dealing with, because I have to be a good boy, and nobody even knows that I have a problem because I mean I show up to everything, I do everything. At some point there's a flameout, but you don't necessarily know about it at 16 or 17 years old. Otherava. You might be celebrating that kid, right? He's the best kid in Kollel. He's the best kid in whatever program he's on. Oh my God, this kid's going to be great. We've got to make sure that he goes to the top chair in 11th grade, so that he can go to the top chair in 12th grade, so that he can get to the right yeshiva in Israel, so that he can go to YU, so that he can be an NCSY Kollel advisor, and then he could tell the next kid who's like him to do the same exact thing. Rinse and repeat. You know the story. I'm being a little bit careful about my words, but I think everybody in the room really knows what I'm talking about. Uncomfortable? Okay.

34:47 Could be that kid is suffering a lot more than the kid who's not participating in the program. So it's an opportunity number one for us, and it's an opportunity also to discover what's going on in the world of that kid. Get to see him. If the kid comes up with a struggle, they don't dive in. How empathetically supposed to be like if we struggle in that same thing, or we are still struggling in that same thing? I don't think there's anything wrong. There's chilukei deis on this. I don't think there's anything wrong with.

35:17 With letting a kid know that you also struggle, but you have to be careful. I would say not to make the conversation about yourself, and it can be very easy sometimes, in a narcissistic type of way, that a kid comes to you with a problem and you go, 'I also have that problem,' and now you spend the next 25 minutes telling him your whole story. Like he's not your therapist; he doesn't need to hear your issues. But you can let them know, in a beautiful way, the two most powerful words in the English language are 'me too.' Right, so not that 'me too.' Though, very clearly they are very powerful words. Look what happened. If you put a hashtag in front of it, you could destroy an entire society. So there's a lot of value in a kid coming to an advisor and saying I'm struggling with davening.

36:14 And saying, I really hear that. That's normal, right? Normalizing things is a big part of what we do. And saying, in my own process, it's I want you to know, davening wasn't always easy. And then asking further questions and allowing things to develop, allowing the conversation to develop, is a really important thing. I would only caution you that there are boundaries, and I'm speaking belashonaki, but again, I think everybody knows what I'm talking about here. That there will be guys that are struggling with areas of kedusha. And Baruch Hashem, we're living in a world today where they are more open about their challenges. Wasn't always that way, and Baruch Hashem, there's a lot less toxic shame around these issues. Unfortunately, there's not a healthy amount of shame, and so perhaps people are more open about these things without the bousha that Chazal speak about. But they are coming today.

37:12 Being a boundary person is also important, and it's okay to let somebody know that you struggle. There are areas where it's important, and you'll have to know yourself and gauge yourself and speak to your own people on your own program. But there are areas that I would not recommend saying, 'Me too,' because those are the NCSYer does not necessarily deserve to be brought into the vulnerability of your own arena. That type of issue is something to be vulnerable about, but with the right people. And that's a really important area, like to be able to differentiate between this and this. There are uncomfortable areas in between. A guy comes to you and he says, 'I have a girlfriend. I also had a girlfriend. But I did this. How far do you want to go?' Boundaries are really important.

38:07 I feel it's going to be very difficult to make sure kids are getting enough individual, one-on-one time. I just don't notice if people are going to need that. What are things we do before to make sure kids are getting enough of your time, and they also feel important? That's such a beautiful question. The worst thing is the kids who are misbehaving will get your attention. Because they demand it, the kids that are behaving well will get your attention, because it's nice to interact with those types of kids. The challenge very often is that middle kid who's just solid, and it's the easiest place to drop the ball, and it's a really important place. I love the question. In fact, I would say that probably on both ends of the spectrum, the kids who are doing really great, that's how they get attention.

39:05 The kids who are doing really poorly, that's how they get attention. The kids who are in the middle, I don't know if they know how to get attention. Maybe that's why they're in the middle. So those kids in some ways need it the most. And time is at a premium. There's a rebbe in yeshiva who always says this. He's like, every time we have a staff training, he's like, everything that the person who came and said, he gave the staff training, everything he said is right. But there's one problem. At the end of the day, you only have a certain amount of time. And so you have responsibilities, and in your life to be able to dedicate that level of time is not easy. So there's a rebbe in yeshiva who does this. I don't know if the talmidim know that he does this, but he has a list of I met with this boy on this day, and I met with this boy on this day. And so he's able to keep a rotation going. It's something you really need to be consciously aware of because those kids will slip through the cracks, and those kids are waiting for you to come to them. And by the way, just on that note.

40:00 The kids are waiting for you to come to them. They're waiting. The summers are a tremendous opportunity to have an impact. Even if you think this kid clearly wants nothing to do with me, it's okay. If you're a normal, gentle person, most people will want to take a walk and just share about what's going on in their life. And if he really, really doesn't, I would be curious about the dynamic of the relationship or I'd be curious about what that kid is going through that he's so protected.

40:31 You have to be careful. It's a beautiful thing to be able to give somebody time, and yes, there'll be narratives. It doesn't mean that it's factual, but there will be narratives that NCS wires have around the way that we treat other kids. He likes this kid the best. He gives the most time to this kid. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's the case in your heart, but there will be narratives around that, and so it is important. Obviously, you can't be everything to everybody. And by the way, this is I'm going to say this now. It's not going to be so easy to hear. You will disappoint people, and you have to learn to be okay with disappointing people because that's part of the job. And you're not going to be perfect at this, and you will make mistakes, and that's okay also. And you'll do your best. And at the end of the day, if a kid feels hurt and he hopefully has the space to be able to share it with you.

41:23 To be able to listen to him and say, I understand where you're coming from. I'll do my best to help you as much as I can. It's true. I only have a finite amount of time, and you might want to be sensitive. Instead of the hour chavrusa with the kid, maybe it's a 25-minute chavrusa. I find that it's much more about just getting to them as opposed to the quantity. So probably the example you were saying before about struggles with nothing. How important is it to have group discussions, honest discussions, chabura? And if it isn't, how do you break the ice, or how do you be honest, etc.? First of all, that's another amazing question. The challenge of the chabura is very often that the chabura is not homogeneous, and so you could have a kid who says that he doesn't believe in God and doesn't daven, and you could have a kid who's only wants to learn and is not interested in these conversations.

42:18 In the world of classroom chabura management, it's not easy to hold both of those things at once. Because both sides could be very frustrating. Knowing whether or not you should speak about it as a chabura would depend upon the nature of the chabura that you have. But the second part of your question, I think we can answer with a little bit more of a degree of certainty, is creating an honest, open, authentic environment where people can share. That starts with you. If you are a person who values authenticity, safety, and vulnerability, then you will exude that. The way you respond to questions and the way you hold space for them as they're speaking will let them know that this is a place where it's okay. You might do that covertly, in the way you just are. Depending on who you are and the nature of your chaburah, you might do it overtly. I'll share with you that there was a boy in yeshiva once who was struggling with a particular issue. It was a very sensitive issue, and it was one of those situations where I knew that he was struggling with this issue. He knew that he was struggling with this issue. The only question was whether he would feel comfortable sharing with me that he was struggling with this issue. It doesn't matter what the issue was, and it required months of overt work in a chaburah setting, letting the chaburah know.

43:42 That this is the type of issue I've dealt with in the past, and that I feel privileged to be able to journey with people in that space. It took a very long time, but eventually he did share his struggle, not because I forced him to or because I wanted him to, but so he could know that he could if he needed to. Eventually he did take me up on it. This was eight or nine years ago at this point. Baruch Hashem, we're still in touch, pretty regularly, and in that case, it did require a more overt expression of whoever you are is okay here. That's not a simple thing to do either. I was wondering related to that kid who's in the middle, ensure that they're not favored.

44:41 They're just people. They're just regular people. People are fascinating. If you guys, I want you to know, all of your NCS wires are fascinating. Every one of them is an oyalamale. The problem is they don't think they are. I imagine some of you in the room have experienced this. They don't think they are because they think they're cookie cutter. I don't know if you've ever had this feeling, but I've had guys literally say to me. I'm sure that some of the rabbis in the room have had the same thing. I feel like I don't want to take your time because you probably just discuss the same issue every single day over and over with the guys. I don't want to be the guy that does it. I don't want to be like the next guy that comes to you and say, "Hey, Rebbe, I'm struggling with this issue." And the truth of the matter is, and I mean this authentically, I don't find any of their stories repetitive. I've been in Mevasserah now. This is my 15th year. I have yet to hear one story be repeated. Not once. There are symptoms that are similar.

45:36 The expression of a guy coming in and saying, 'I'm struggling with X,' that I've heard before, but all the stuff that leads up to that has never once been the same. I've never heard a guy who comes in and says, 'My story is the same exact story as Yenim's story.' I haven't. I've never heard it. People are absolutely fascinating if you're willing to listen to them. So he's just a kid. He's a kid who's going through whatever he's going through. Take a walk with him. You want to really know how to get through to him? Open up a safer. I promise you, you'll do anything but learn. And if he's learning, that's a problem. That means he's protecting himself. People just want to. There's no special tactic. There's just like he's a human being. You and I know each other for a couple of years already. You're a human being too, no? Two human beings probably have something in common, just to sit and shmooze about. Many years ago, even you and I did, right? Say time. What you said are maybe difficult moments, but we have to hold up some when things are difficult and things are being struggled. And as role models, we want to act as role models, but what we do and the aftermath reflects flying with them. Meaning, if we don't act as we should. That's a great question. It's a vulnerable question. Apologize, right?

47:07 It's okay to make mistakes, and there's a lot to be learned from an advisor who recognizes that he's made a mistake and says to the kid that he's talking to, 'Hey, that wasn't my highest self, and I just want to let you know that what happened was frustrating, but that's not the way to respond to that. And if you can be real and say, let's say I embarrassed you, yeah, I'm going to apologize publicly if that's what you want.' Being able to really own that is a really important part of being a role model. It doesn't need to be perfect, but it does need to be godly. And what you do has to be a godly response. And if you're imperfect, that's okay. It's also again an opportunity for growth. And there'll be times where repairs need to be made. But as Rabbi Nachman said, if you believe you can break it, you believe you can fix it.

48:05 If you feel like you've broken something, then there's an opportunity for rectification. It's not over because we didn't respond in the best way possible. So depending on what you did, what would it take to rectify it? What's the most authentic way you can show up to that interaction? That's an awesome opportunity. Is there ever a time to be disciplinary or to point out something wrong? Of course. First of all, I just want to say again, you have to speak to the people who are running your programs. But right away, you have to have clarity. And if you don't have clarity, then make sure you have clarity. That's your responsibility. Meaning, a lot of times we'll sit up here and say these are the rules. But if you're walking away from your particular program and you don't have clarity, like if a boy does X, what am I supposed to do under these particular circumstances? You need to have that clarity, and don't stop until you have that clarity. That's number one.

49:03 In terms of being disciplinary. So it could depend. Meaning, I heard when I was in Connecticut for Shabbos, I heard Rabbi Worman. He was giving over for T. J. J. Lyons. He was giving over. What do you do in this circumstance? And he was very clear. I don't want you to deal with that. Come to me. Let me deal with that. That's not an advisor thing. That's a rosh bus thing. Great, in that case it's very clear. And again, but some of you will have, we'll call it immediate disciplinary issues. You're giving a chabura, and the kid is behaving in a way that's staring the entire chabura. So then you're going to need to make a call. Experience tells me that really good discipline almost never happens on the spot. That really good discipline is okay. This chabura is not going to go as well as I wanted it to, and that's okay.

49:51 Afterwards, I'm going to make sure to take that guy on a walk and go help me understand what's going on, because I'm trying to give the chaburah. It's important to me. I really want to be here to share t'vyah with you guys. Clearly, something is going on because you're talking the entire time. It's making it difficult for me to concentrate, and I'm wondering if there's something I need to do better. And after that, also being able to say, I need you to sort of come along with us on this journey. Let's see how we can work this together. There are times where you'll have to say on the spot, dude. And you do that to the best of your ability to minimize that as much as possible. You're probably not going to get very far with calling a kid out in public and just taking him to task on the spot. That's usually, as Aton mentioned, where we already lost ourselves. But it's hard because nobody prepared that chaburah and you're excited to give over that chaburah and the vibe that you're looking for isn't there. That's a hard thing to do.

50:49 If a kid is falling in, how do you know that you probably have the right pace with helping him to keep growing? I have no idea. How could I know? How could you know? And what if you're going at the wrong pace? What does that mean? What does that look like? Saying you're rushing into things. Start learning this. Why would you ever tell him that? Why would you ever tell him what to do? Nothing suggested. So I think that's important. These decisions have to belong to him. If he says to you, "I want to pick up a mesecta," what should be a good mesecta for me? And in your wealth of experience, you say Tainus. Because somehow that becomes the I don't know what Tainus did in its life to deserve that. That's the first nobody ever goes chulin. We're doing Vayrevna chulin. Nobody doesn't go. I don't know why.

51:44 So you tell the kid, like Tynes. That's a suggestion. That's information deficit, right? If somebody comes to you and they say, 'How do I get to the bus to get to yeshiva?' and you go, 'How do you think you get to the bus?' that's not helpful, right? But if a guy comes to you and he says to you, 'Yeah, I'm working on my Yiddishkeit and I'm feeling like I have to take the next steps. What do you think the next steps should be?' I would really turn to the kid and go, 'What do you think the next steps should be?' And the kid's natural reaction would be, 'I don't know.' That's why I'm coming to you, and it's okay to say to the kid, 'I don't know either.' And the beauty of this journey is that you're developing your own muscles and you're learning how to walk. And if I sit there and tell you what to do, you're not going to develop those muscles. So let's think about it together. What are some areas that you're interested in? What are some areas that you want to work on? Right? And he goes, 'I really like mussar.' Great. That's an awesome thing. You really want to learn mussar, sounds like.

52:37 I don't know if I want to learn mussar because I also know that I need to work on my davening. Is there like a davening mussar safer? And like, that's a conversation, but you don't have the answers. I would never want to take responsibility for, okay, do this now. That's not. I don't know. How could I know? I'm not a prophet nor the son of a prophet, and chacham adof minavi anyway. I think it's a wonderful opportunity to say to the kid, "Do you think you're going at too fast a pace?" If a kid's like, you have guys in yeshiva that all of a sudden are like in the basement, meders till twelve, one o'clock in the morning, and then they get like exhausted, and they're like, "Oh, I was too fast." What'd you learn about yourself? Like every guy in yeshiva has that moment, like I'm gonna be the guy who doesn't sleep, and then a week later you're like sick in bed with the flu or COVID.

53:33 Last question. I should say that was the last question. It's like you know the sign. As a joke, the guy gets on a plane and the no smoking sign goes on, so he lights up a cigarette. The woman says to the woman next to him, "What are you doing?" It says no smoking. "No, you're reading it wrong. It says no smoking." And on that note, Rabbeinu, I have an awesome summary.