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So the last couple of years we've been speaking about motivation. Up until now, we've been speaking about motivation through praise. Today, we're going to speak about reward based motivation. When I was a young man, I had the opportunity to participate in what's called a Bill Pelham. Behavior modification program, which is a reward based modification program. I happen to deeply believe in these programs, and today we'll explain some of the theories behind reward-based motivation. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's get started. People are motivated by personal gain. Now. Obviously, that's not the highest level. If a person only does something because of what they gain from it, that's narcissistic. But children, by definition Are self-centered. Part of our process is to remove them from an attitude that's self-centered to an attitude that's giving to another. That's the goal here. But we also recognize that children are where they are, and therefore we have to speak to them where they are.
So if a parent comes to a child, especially when they're younger, and the parent takes the approach You should do this for the right reason. The child might not be capable of doing it for the right reason. The child hasn't yet gotten to that level where they can identify the intrinsic value of what they're doing. So if you ask an eight-year-old, do you want to stay home and study for a test or do you want to go out with your friends? Every eight-year-old is going to say, "I want to go out and play with my friends," and they should want to do that. Because that's the self-centered thing to do. That's what That's what gives them that feeling of connection. The adult is not going to take that approach. The adult is going to say, "No, this is medical school. I have to study, not because I only need to get good grades and pass college, but because one day this information will help save lives." So the adult is capable of doing an activity that they don't want to do.
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In other words, obedience. That's a very healthy thing. The adult is capable of being obedient and doing the thing they don't necessarily want to do, not because of a reward they're getting per se, but because they recognize the intrinsic value of what they're doing. A child is not necessarily capable of doing that, therefore Chazal have a principle called mitoch shel olishma bal ishma. Now mitochshalo lishma balishma. At some point, you have to move out from right. If you're sixty years old and you're still saying mitochshalo lishma, I think something is probably not going well. But for a child, it's okay. Not only okay. It's mumlatz. It's advised to take something external. And to make an extrinsic motivation, in order to motivate the child, because even though they may not recognize the intrinsic value of what they're doing, they attach themselves to the extrinsic value. This is what the Rambam in Perish Mishnayos explains. He says that very young children should be rewarded with food.
As they get a little bit older, they should be rewarded with clothing. As they get a little bit older, they should be rewarded with kavod. But ultimately, it's not. It's again, I don't think what the I don't necessarily know that today by today's standards the same thing is true. In terms of the order, but the principle is true. Each child needs an extrinsic motivator in order to get them where we need to go, and so for a younger child, it's going to be more childish things, and for an older child, it'll be a little bit more sophisticated. Again, the goal is that eventually they get to the feeling that this is intrinsically valuable, but there's nothing wrong with taking something that's extrinsically valuable and saying, 'Do it for this reason,' because that creates motivation. And eventually, they learn to appreciate the intrinsic value. This is particularly important when it comes to non-compliant children.
Let's talk about the non-compliant child for a second. When we speak about a child who's non-compliant, what we mean is The child is simply impaired from cooperation. So you have a kid that you've told him a number of times, 'This is what I expect you to do.' You've tried to praise the child in order to get them to do what you want them to do, and to no avail. There seems to be some sort of blockage. This blockage that we're speaking about, it's not rational. The child has not made a rational decision to be non-compliant. They're simply compliant impaired. And so Just yelling and screaming your head off. It may work. You can force compliance. But it will come with a tremendous cost. First of all, it reduces the long-term parental effectiveness. So if you're coercing If you're coercing compliance, at some point the child realizes there's nothing you could do to me, and you're gonna have to keep upping your forcing game, so that at some point the child realizes there's nothing left that you can do, it's become absurd. Like we mentioned in a previous year, at some point the parent has no choice but to say now you have to leave my house. Because that's the only way they know how to force compliance. Because they're not
They have never attached themselves to the intrinsic motivation of the child, and so if they're not willing to do something else, they're just going to try to force compliance, and eventually that's not going to work because the child says, "Okay, I'll leave your house, and now what?" So that's one thing. It reduces long-term parental effectiveness. Number two, and obviously this is huge. Whenever you coerce cooperation, whenever you coerce compliance, you're bringing a tremendous amount of negativity into the relationship. What child is going to want to be part of a family when every single thing that they don't do creates that level of negativity? And, and finally What you do by forcing the child is you're conditioning the child to a healthy pattern, right? In other words, the value of a reward-based motivation system is it creates a healthy pattern. And eventually, even without the reward, the child will be obedient and he will comply.
However, if you're going to simply coerce cooperation or coerce performance, then whenever you're there, whenever you're not there to coerce, the child simply stops performing. Let's review this quickly, and then we'll open it up to some questions. Number one The idea here is that the child is not yet ready to understand the intrinsic value of the activity, so we're giving an extrinsic motivational tool. Eventually, they're going to learn to appreciate the intrinsic value. You can force a non-compliant child into what's called performance, but remember, they're impaired when it comes to cooperation. So if you're going to coerce them into doing it, you're reducing your long-term parental effectiveness. You're creating massive amounts of negativity in the relationship, and you never actually conditioned the child to a healthy pattern. As soon as you're gone, the child never developed an inner drive. When you talk about a reward-based system, these really can help a non-compliant child. Once the child has tasted success, eventually they learn to appreciate the intrinsic value of the activity, and then the rewards program can be removed. Obviously, the benefits are that there's no power struggle. There's a positive atmosphere in the home. There's a strong relationship with the parents.
These are all great things. But more importantly, when the child learns that this behavior is good for them, they start to appreciate it. So then, the child has developed the inner drive. So take for example a person who's eating junk food. So they enter into a contest. And let's say they're obese, so they enter into a contest, and the winner of the contest gets five hundred dollars. So they're motivated for extrinsic reasons to lose weight. So they've lost weight. But eventually, what they hopefully learn is that along the way, when they were eating all those salads and lean protein and working out, they realize this is a healthier lifestyle that makes them feel good. That's not going to cause them to die of a heart attack at forty-five years old because they're eating themselves into oblivion. So the extrinsic system gives the child the opportunity to appreciate the intrinsic value, and when you coerce a child into doing that, they never learn to appreciate the inner drive, right? The intrinsic value of the behavior because they're only doing it because of the parent. Let's pause here in case anyone has any questions.
No questions. Excellent. Let's continue then. So now let's talk about what type of reward program we want to set up, and here's where we're going to get into some big detail. But before we get into detail, there's an important hashkafa that comes along with this. The hashkafa is as follows: a reward program is not a bribe. Because if it's a bribe, then you haven't really accomplished what you wanted to accomplish. Then the kid knows they've got you. That's bad chinuch. My parents wanted me to do this, so they bribed me into doing it. And if you're not careful, a reward program can very naturally slip into a bribe. So what's the difference between a bribe and a reward program? It starts with the way that we, as the parents, speak to the child about the reward program. So if you sit down with your child and go, look.
I just need you to do this. And if you do it, I'll give you this. That's a bribe. But if you sit down with your child, as we're going to describe, you're in a particular fashion. If you sit down with the child and you explain that these are the things I think we ought to be paying attention to. And I've been noticing that maybe your needs aren't being met. So let's see if we can meet your needs here. This is a program not for me to get compliance, but this is a program for you so that you can learn these healthy behaviors. You see how that's fundamentally different than a bribe. A bribe tells the child that he's in control of the parent. A reward program gives the child control over themselves. That's the fundamental difference between a bribe and a reward program. Abe. You appreciate the lundus.
That's real lundus right there. Any questions? If you have a question, just unmute yourself and ask. How do you differentiate between a bribe and a reward-based system? Again, the beginning of it is going to be in the way that you present it to the child. If the child knows that they are not the goal. But just like their parents need a certain level of behavior, that's a bribe. If the parent is focused on the child, that's a reward program. Let's say, for example, if my kid is annoying me. I'm sitting here trying to learn, and my kid is annoying me, and I go look. If you go out of here and you stay out for twenty minutes while I'm doing my work, at the end I'll give you ten dollars so that you can go to the store. That's a bribe. If you sit down with a child and they say and you say, here are some of the things I need. I think we need to pay attention to in your development. That's a reward program.
It's not focused on the. It's not focused on the behavior. It's focused on the child, right? So I'll give you just a cute story. I was upstairs today preparing my parsha on steroids here, and all of a sudden I hear a pitter patter behind me. My son Machal walks into the room. He's three and a half years old, and he's holding guess who. I turned around. Guess who is the game. He's holding guess who. The game. And he looks at me so sweetly and he goes, "Abba, I brought a game." And I'm like, 'Oh man! If I say no now, I'm like the worst parent in the world. This is so sweet.' So I said, 'Machal, I'm gonna play one game with you.' He told me to sit down on the floor and he made me sit down on the floor. He told me exactly how he wanted me to sit down. He wanted me to lie down next to him, and we played Guess Who together.
If Machal walks into my room, and I'm like, I am really right in the middle of preparing a thread that runs all the way from other Marishon and Chava to Yosef HaTzaddik. To David and Bat Sheva, to Amnon and Tamar, to Avshalom, to the Nazir who came to Shimon HaTzaddik. Like I'm preparing this giant thread. I'll be honest with you. I don't really want to sit and play Guess Who with you right now. And Mechal, if you're listening to this, twenty years from now, of course I wanted to play Guess Who with you. But in the meantime, there was a deep part of me that was sitting there going I really, really, really need to focus. If you don't write it now, Shavuos is tomorrow. When are you going to write it? There was a part of me that didn't want to do it. So if I just would have said to Mechal, go downstairs and you can have a beastly. Go downstairs and you can have a shluk. Go downstairs, you have an Isis.
He's not the object. I'm the desired result, not him. Zevi, does that make sense? It reminds me of what our Rebbe told us about Feinstein with playing toy soldiers. Remind me. Rebbe said a story too. I think the chibur that we had of Shana Bechais about the Feinstein. He would get on the floor and play toy soldiers with his son. With revenge. That's because he was a good parent. I did it just because I'm like In love with my son. Simcha. So would it always be totally inappropriate to do a bribe thing like that? If you know you're working on something really important and your kid wants to play, guess who? Be like, okay, I can't play now. Go take a break, and we'll try to play later. Can't really sit down and start coming up with a whole reward system. And it's totally for you. You just don't have time.
Just right, and that makes sense. And there's going to be times where we do that. But remember that you've now taught the child the behavior. Because the child now knows, hey, if Dad is working and I go over to him, then I get beastly. I'm not saying that there's not a time and place for it. And remember, you have to be normal as a parent. Also, one of the conversations I had recently with my brother in law is he was saying how you hear these parenting classes from people who are in their sixties and seventies and who are experienced parents. But they're in their sixties and seventies. They're not thirty years old with a bunch of kids and just tearing their hair out. Sometimes you just need to get the kid out of your way, and that's understandable. But let's not confuse that with the ideal, and certainly let's not make that a habit.
So what would be a good way to do that if you're not going to set up a reward system? You don't want to bribe the kid, but you need them to leave you alone for a little bit. So sometimes the answer is just no. But if you have a priority of values, which makes sense, sometimes you may choose to bribe the kid. But let's not confuse that with changing a behavior. If your kid is coming home consistently with fifties or sixties on tests, you're trying to change a behavior here. You're not just trying to bribe a kid. Because even if that kid now comes home with an eighty, as soon as the bribe goes away, he was never really in it. He never really learned the value of it, because it was never really about him. It was about his parents' need for him to have a certain grade. That's not going to speak to the child in the same way Okay? So Rebbe.
Are there certain times where bribes would be acceptable or at least the best option? Let's say you're at an amusement park and a kid just will not stop crying. You give him an ice cream, he's gonna stop crying. What's the problem with a kid who won't stop crying? So parents. I think that case is more common than you realize because you take your kid shopping. You take a kid shopping, and now the mom has to take the three year old shopping because he's the one that's home from school, and they discover the cookie aisle together, and so the kid decides to throw a temper tantrum in the middle of Gourmet Glot or Cedar Lane or wherever it is, right? And the parent is pushed embarrassed. Our embarrassment should not be the driving force behind our parenting. We should do what's authentically good for the child. You might say as a parent
And I think this is reasonable. You might say, look, honestly, I just need to shop, and I can't shop if my kid is sitting on the ground throwing a temper tantrum. It might be that the priority of values right there, and this is certainly reasonable as a mom or as a dad that's doing the shopping. It might be that the priority of values is just to get the kid off of the floor because you have to be home in forty five minutes to pick up those other kids from school, and so in that case you might bribe the kid, but let's not confuse that with a reward program. You haven't really changed the behavior. If you had thought about it beforehand, you might have been able to create a reward program. And that's fundamentally different. So in that type of situation, because the kid isn't an idiot, the kid is doing us. All I have to do is sit on the floor and start crying, and then I get cookies. So the best option is to plan a month in advance, or six months in advance, or a year in advance, and train them to not cry for no reason.
So I wouldn't say a month in advance or a year in advance, but if you have a kid that's consistently going to the store with you, and every time you take that kid to the store, that kid is throwing a temper tantrum, that might be an opportunity to change a behavior with a thoughtful reward program, as opposed to a last minute bribe. What? I guess we are about to talk. We're going to talk about that extensively. Yoni Stewart, Shalita. So Can you discuss the part of the conversation where you introduce the actual reward program, describing why the reward program is important and how that can shift the narrative from drive to reward program? Can you discuss how to actually introduce the rewards without making it sound like you're driving? We're going forward. I'm only introducing to you the theory of it. In other words, in the conversation, what you want the tone of the conversation to feel like is that we're working on something. There's a goal here. You are the goal. The goal is not simply a behavior, but you are the goal. We're going to talk about how to introduce the rewards and making the child in control of the reward system. It's a big part of ensuring that it's not a That it's not just a bribe. But we'll see. It's coming up. It's a good. It's a it's a very good and a very fair point.
Any other questions? Let's get started then on actually structuring what a reward program looks like. The first thing is we have to set goals. So identify the desired behavior that's number one. You can even make a list of desired behaviors. Let's say you're looking at your child. You're looking at your child Nachi, beautiful, wonderful child. And you say Nachi needs to work on getting to bed on time. Nachi needs to work on putting all of his homework away so that he brings it to school the next day. Nachi needs to work on getting up in the morning and getting to school on time. We're identifying a list of desired behaviors and making that list, establishing in our minds what the priorities are because we cannot tackle every program or every problem at once. If you come and you've got your kid on twenty different desired behaviors, there is no way the kid is going to have the focus to be able to do that. You could make a list, but make sure you set the priorities of what you want to see happen.
And now Yoni, this starts to answer your question. Together with the child, we're going to figure out how to select behaviors. And here's why that's critical, because remember the goal here is we want to establish that the child eventually gets to the intrinsic value, which means that the child needs to have a sense of control here. The child needs to be a partner. In the work, they're not just what's called the child. The child isn't just performing. They're a partner. They appreciate what they're doing. There are multiple ways of doing this. One way is to make a list and identify which behaviors you want to see change, then create a priority list and go to your child and say, which behaviors do you think we should be working on first? That's one way of empowering the child.
Another way of empowering the child is not to make a list at all. Sit down together with the child and say, 'What are some of the things that you think we should be working on?' I'll share with you some of the things that I think, but why don't we make a list and see what you think, and then you can creatively and collaboratively come up with a list that you both want. Obviously, this is going to be a really important thing because now the child understands that they're a partner in the work. And if I'm a partner in the work, then I'm invested in it. And if I'm invested in it, it's more likely that I'm going to be motivated. And if I'm motivated, we're going to get to the desired results. So the first, again, so far, Yoni, I hope this. I hope you're starting to appreciate the development here. So far, we've said it's not a bribe; it's a reward system. You're the goal. How do we do that? We're bringing the child into the process of the creation of the system. The child is not just this. Is not being acted upon. But they're together as part of the system.
Yoni, does that make sense? So that's one thing that we're going to do. A second thing we're going to do is set clear performance standards. If a goal is not clearly defined, children get very frustrated. They say, 'What do you mean? I worked so hard to reach the goal, and now you're not giving me the reward.' So you need to have really specific goals. Saying, 'I want you to try harder in school, and if I see that you're trying harder in school, then we're going to go out to eat.' So the kid comes back a week later and says, I tried harder in school And dad says, I don't know what you're talking about. What do you mean you tried harder in school? I didn't hear that you tried harder in school. I didn't see that you tried harder in school. The kid says, "Of course I tried harder in school." Well, I spoke to your teacher, and your teacher is still not happy, so you're not getting the reward. Now the child's really frustrated because the child says, "I really did work harder in school. Like that really occurred within me, and you can't tell me that it didn't work with that it didn't occur within me." So now the child gets very frustrated, and your entire reward system falls apart.
If you come to the child with a very specific goal, like Improve your grade by five points on the next test. Or you don't just tell the child to clean the room. But you tell the child a clean room means that your bed is made, that there's nothing on the floor, and that the closets remain neat. So then the child has clear performance standards, and then when you're evaluating them, it's very obvious whether or not the child actually did it. Does that make sense? Number one, the child is a partner. Number two, the child understands exactly what they have to do. Number three. Set measurable goals. You have to be able not just that the child should have clear performance goals, but that you can actually measure the goal. So I'll give you an example. Tell the child. I want to see if you're listening carefully to me. What does listening carefully mean? It doesn't mean anything. You have to be able to observe the progress so that you can actually know if the reward has been earned.
Another one, number four, set attainable goals. Simcha. Because three is the performance standard, right? That's the that's the. That's what we're looking for, right? Number four is that the performance standard is measurable. Meaning they work together. Obviously, if it's a good performance standard, then it's going to be measurable, right? But you need to have both. Does that make sense? Okay. Another one: set attainable goals. We already spoke about having too many goals, right? If you have too many goals, then the child is going to give up. But it's also important to have goals that are within the child's reach, right? Attainability means that the child will be motivated, right? So if you give a goal that's unattainable The child knows that they can't do it, so they're not motivated. Here's a classic example: take a child who suffers from ADHD. They're impulsive. And you tell them they're not on medication. They're impulsive. They're walking around the classroom. They're not following the rules. So you, as a parent, come and you say the following: I'm going to give you a reward if I see that you can sit still in class, take notes all day, and follow all the rules without any medication.
What are the chances that the hyperactive child is going to be able to do that? The answer is almost none. And because that's the answer, so Really, what is the child gaining already? Nothing, because the child knows I can't do it. Nothing was actually accomplished. Now it's very important that even if you set what you believe are attainable goals, they you might be wrong. So there's nothing wrong with being flexible and saying, 'Okay, we tried to create a rewards program where the goal was X. I see now that that's not a reasonable goal. So let's modify the reward program together. Let's lower the expectations.' There's nothing wrong with lowering expectations, and last but not least in this section, then I'll pause if there are any questions. It's important that the goals in the beginning are more easily obtainable. But then slowly increase in difficulty. Because we don't want the kid to just become accustomed to following one thing. We want them to slowly move over the course of time to higher levels of success. So we're gonna give them something they can attain in the beginning, and then it's gonna be right above where they're capable, where they're used to doing, but still within the range of capable. And then we're gonna move right above that. Think about it, guys. Like it is with working out.
Maybe Elon, you could help me here. If you what's called it, if I'm let's say working out and I try right away to bench two hundred pounds, it's not shyach to me. But if you give me something that's ridiculously easy, it's stupid also. So you have to start off with something that's attainable. But then you where do you build that muscle? When you go right above what you're accustomed to doing, and then incrementally move up, that's how you build muscle. Elon, am I correct? We call that progressive overload. Progressive overload. The same thing is true in parenting, right? If you go too much, right? If that set becomes too much, then the person falls apart. So it has to be an attainable goal that's slowly moving up, but within the realm that's shyach to the child. Any questions? I guess this all makes a tremendous amount of sense to you.
Exactly. I agree, one hundred percent. Demoralizing for the child if you're like, okay, well, these goals are just a little too much, and now we have to change them. It might be demoralizing to a child, which is why you should be doing your best in the very beginning to create attainable goals. There's no doubt that that's at least partially true, but I think there's also something beautiful about letting a child know with compassion. We love you. We want you to be successful, and we realize we made a mistake when we were setting these goals because you will get there, but this is not necessarily what you're up to right now. So you have to be really careful. That's why sometimes it's better to err on the side of caution, and going a little bit less in the beginning might be helpful, especially in establishing a baseline.
What about a child who's not as goal oriented? There are a lot of kids who are good kids or kids that grow, but maybe not by the use of setting a goal and then trying to achieve that. Give me an example of what you mean. Like a lot of in. Instead of saying I'm setting the goal of reading ten books this year. Maybe just the kid who says I want to read more books and then can grow without necessarily setting a standard. The problem with saying we're going to create a reward program for you to read more books is It's not a clearly defined performance standard. So he may read one more book. But maybe he was capable over the course of a year. And again, we're going to talk about setting yearly goals because that's probably a big mistake for a that's probably a big mistake in general. But let's just say we had a weekly goal. Of you're going to read a book this week. So if you say to the child, "I want you to read more," well, I read a page. Now I read more. Give me my reward. The word "more" is not well defined, and therefore there's not clear performance standards.
And so you're not necessarily able to observe. What does more mean, and now the child gets frustrated. But I'm just saying there are certainly a lot of people who probably learn or improve more not based on a lot of people aren't necessarily goal oriented, like they still achieve things, but they don't necessarily do it under that program. And that's fine. We're speaking specifically here about a reward based program. You're a hundred percent right that not everybody is going to improve. With a goal based program, there's just certain natural incremental change that occurs. I don't disagree with you. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about where you found it, where you're trying to change a behavior by creating a goal oriented program. That's where we are. That's the rubric we're within. Okay. So far, so good. This says there. Thank you, Brodsky. Thumbs up to you too.
Now. Let's talk about what the rewards are. So number one The child has to value the reward. If the child does not value the reward, it doesn't matter. So if you come to the child and you say, if you score five points higher on this next test, I'm gonna give you Brussels sprouts. Unless the child really, really likes Brussels sprouts, and you know that, and I imagine most children do not. That's not a good reward because why would the kid ever be motivated for that reward? You understand? But if you help, if you together with the child select the reward, that's going to create again the feeling of control in the child that the child can say, "This is awesome." I sat them with my parents. Now again, just because they asked for a reward doesn't mean you're going to give it. But the child, by the way, naturally these kids will understand that it's reasonable. And so you'll say to the child, "Okay, I want to be working on this behavior with you, so that we can have incremental improvement in this behavior, and this is what that improvement looks like."
What do you think a good reward for that would be? The child will naturally and creatively come up with something like, I want to go out to eat just the two of us. That might be a very reasonable reward. I want to have half an hour a night where I get to hang out with my friends on the block. That might be a reasonable reward. They're probably not going to ask you to go to Disney World just for getting five more points on their math test. So if that's what you're concerned about, don't be right because kids are pretty reasonable. And again, if they're outlandish So as a parent, that's an opportunity for us to curb their expectations in a healthy way. One of the things you can consider Is making a reward store. So the reward could be fluid. You could have a whole reward store, and the child could get to pick from that reward store, or even creating a point system where if you've accrued a certain amount of points, they earn greater rewards within the reward store. And again, the reason why this is valuable is because the child owns the process, and the child owning the process makes it more meaningful. I have a neighbor, for example, who's a great guy. He has a reward store. His reward store is many, many different types of candies.
And what he does is basically certain candies are less chashuv, so those candies you need a very small amount of points for. And some candies are really chashuv, so you need a much greater amount of points. And the kids get to come and they get to say, "I want to cash in my rewards." There were very clear, measurable goals. This is what success looks like. Then they're able to choose, and that again empowers the child. It creates a greater level of motivation. What's really important is don't make the reward too big. Don't make the reward too big. Kids naturally understand that the reward shouldn't be that big. And again, an excessive reward actually diminishes the value of the performance. Because you're not focused on the performance at all. You're only focused on the reward. So you want to have a reward that's commensurate with the experience. Just because you gave a child a larger reward doesn't mean the child is necessarily more motivated. And remember, you're going to have to replicate that reward. So if you say to the kid, "we're going to Disney World if you get a ninety on your test" What are you going to do next test? How many times can you fly the kid all over the world? So you're not going to be able to keep it up. Reward should be commensurate with the performance.
And remember, it's not a bribe. The kids understand the process. They don't need these huge rewards. Written and verbal contracts. Depending on the kid You may need to actually have a written contract. Some kids don't need that. Some kids have a verbal contract. They get it. Everything is clear and they're fine. But very often, especially when it comes to kids who are oppositional or defiant or impulsive or ADHD, whatever it is. It's very, very often a very helpful thing to do, to write it down as a contract. And again, you're not writing it as a contract and handing it to the child to sign, but you and the child collaboratively are getting together to write this contract. So you sit down with the kid, and we say, okay, what are our goals? Clearly defined behaviors. What are our metrics for success? How are we going to measure it? We've chosen together what the reward system is. All of that stuff is in the contract, and then at the bottom
You sign, and they sign, and what you do with that contract is you give one to the child and you keep one for yourself. The reason why this is valuable is when the child comes back and says, "Hey, I hit that metric and I didn't get my reward," so it's very simple. You pull out the contract and you say, "Well, let's see if you actually achieved what we set out to do." And by the way, owning the piece of paper, having the child have that piece of paper, is a great feeling for the child because that's a contract that they're also going to get. It's safe for them. I know that if I perform to the agreed upon goals, I'm going to get exactly what I need. Or even though some children can handle a verbal contract, a written contract is just a much more secure and better way of communicating with the child.
Any questions, Nachi? At a certain age I feel like the whole concept of reward programs becomes kind of demeaning. So you're certainly right. If you're gonna have a very childish reward program with a sixteen year old, then it certainly will be demeaning. But if you think about it, a sixteen year old might just need a different type of reward program. Let's say you have a kid and he's got to take the Regents because he lives in New York, and it's important to his parents that he gets good grades on the Regents because that's gonna help him get a scholarship to YU many years down the line. The parent really wants him to do it. Now the kid is okay getting an eighty or even a seventy because I'm still passing and I got my Regents diploma. So now you might create a more adult teenage version of a reward based program. Like, hey, there are some things that you wanted to do. Like you wanted to go to this program in the summer. Going on that program might be commensurate with the grades that you get. That might be a way of doing it. That's not child. It's not as childish. But if you tell the child, 'Are you going to get an ice cream from Carvel?', then I agree with you.
But that sounds a lot more like holding it over the kid's head. Why? That's what I was gonna say. Why is that? Why is that holding it over the kid's head? Remember, the kid was a partner in the creation of that program. You sat down with the kid and you say, "Look, one of the things that I think we should be working on is your capacity to get good grades, because this is going to be important in your life, right?" The child acknowledges and accepts, because remember, a teenager is still a child. The child acknowledges and accepts that this is something that he needs to work on. The parent says, "I want to make sure that your needs are being attended to." So, what would be something that would motivate you? An extrinsic motivation. The kid says, "I really want to go on the summer program. I know it's more expensive than you wanted." And again, that's not an immediate reward, so it's not a great one. But just throwing it out there because we're talking about a teenager. I'm not holding it over the kid's head. He either earned it or he didn't. That was the agreed upon deal.
Now let's say he doesn't agree. That's fine. Remember, I can't co. I now I'm in. Now you're back in the beginning of this year. So what are you going to do? You're going to coerce the kid. That's not going to work. At least not long term. Probably not even short term. Let's say he doesn't even agree with you that getting good grades is a valuable thing. That might be the case, and now you as a parent have to really think about that. Now we're back to the drawing board because I wanted to create a rewards based program because you don't think getting good grades is important. I'm trying to create this reward-based program so that you establish a certain pattern of behavior so that eventually mitoch shalolishma balishma. But if the kid never agrees to the program because he says I just don't care enough, then it's not going to work.
If the child at some point doesn't own the program, if they don't make it theirs, then I agree with you. But that's why we're that. But that's the goal of that initial conversation. You may not see value in getting good grades. I see value in getting good grades, but do you see value in an extrinsic motivator? If you see value in the extrinsic motivator, then you might be willing to take on this thing, and then you might realize as you're doing it, hey, I feel better about myself when I walk into the class and I actually know what's going on. So that might be how you establish intrinsic value. It may work, it may not. I'm not saying it's going to work every time. But at least there's a conversation now. Whereas if you sit down with the kid and you say you have to take your studies more seriously, and the kid says no, I don't. Now what? One of the things you could do as a parent is if you're not taking your studies more seriously, like I know there's that really great program that you wanted to go to. I know you wanted to go to that Miami Boys Choir concert, right? Or that Mordechai Shapiro concert? Where's Ellie?
There you are. You want to go to that concert? You want to. I'm sorry, he's not here, so I didn't want to call him out. Thanks, guys. You wanna be, you want if you wanna go to the Mordechai Shapiro concert and you want him to sing to you one in a million and call you out by name. I know someone who could make that happen. Maybe you'll take your studies more seriously. Shlomo, you had a question before. I think I got answered. Aaron. One. This might not have so much to do with reward, like with the reward based system, but kind of does. What happens if you find your kid to no fault of their own? Just as they come into their teenage years, they completely do not share. Not the same value system, but at least they don't share the same goals that you had, that's the day you were raised, right? Let's say, and I know people like this, right? The guys who are self-sufficient financially in their teenage years, they don't need their parents to buy their clothing and they don't want to go to camp because they see it as a waste of money and time.
And they I don't want to just finish high school and make my parents happy, but I definitely want to get the grades. I'm going to go into real estate or code. At the end of the day, you have nothing to reward them with because they don't need anything physical. Nor do they want it. And this, and they're not misbehaving. They just like, and you can't fault them. What am I gonna do? Like and you But you probably know the right thing to do is for them to at least get good. To get a degree, like that is the smart thing to do. They just don't see. What do you do as a parent in this country? I think you're highlighting a really important problem, and Aaron, what you're really saying, which I value very much. First of all, that kid's probably going to be rich. Number one. Number two.
Or like an artist somewhere in Brooklyn, you never know. Either way, the child will be a success by some standard. What you're really highlighting is the fact that we as parents are not necessarily in control. So a rewards-based program is based on a particular need that a child has. If a child is self-sufficient at a very young age, it may not work. You may have to come up with another program or you may just have to develop your relationship so intensely and really just work on having such a connective and beautiful relationship with the child so that you can communicate in a healthy way. Because there you're going for straight intrinsic value, and you're not speaking at all to the extrinsic value. You're right, Aaron. That might be a much more complicated case. And that's at the end of the day. So let's say I don't even know what type of program you would institute instead of a reward program, but putting aside that question for a second, if you're trying to rely on, let's say you have a great connection with the child, it's fine. You're very, everybody loves each other, happy family. But by trying to use your connection with the child to show them a certain way of life or a certain goal set that you don't think they share with you at the moment.
You're probably just gonna alienate them. Meaning, you're starting with a great relationship, and if you're trying to cash in on that, they're just gonna go. I thought you got me, but now you definitely don't. There's no doubt that there's a tension, especially when a kid is in their teenage years, and the parent, let's say in this case, actually does know better. There's no doubt that there's a tension there, and kids will always say, 'You don't get me. You don't understand me.' So, it's going to require a tremendous amount of validation and communication to make sure that that's not happening. That the relationship is so strong that it can contain this sort of We're heading in two different directions, and a parent has to be ready to validate and even maybe to respect the fact that their child is doing something different than they want. Only in that safe space will the child have the capacity to turn around and consider the parent's ideas. So you're right. It's definitely much more complicated. Zevi Cohen.
How does one walk the fine line between making it like a positive versus a negative meaning? Let's say let's take the summer program. It's not that you do this and you get to go on the summer program. A lot of kids will think if I don't do this, I don't get to go on the summer program. That's the value. And therefore it becomes a negative connotation for them. A lot of kids struggle with being cast in a negative light. Yes. You're not good enough. You can be good enough, but you're not good enough yet. And in order for you to do this, you need to get better. And a lot of how do you walk the fine line between making it a positive thing versus a negative thing? So again, I think the entire conversation is collaborative, authentically right. Meaning if you're not just coming with an agenda, but you're authentically collaborating with your child. Then I think the child is going to appreciate that.
This is something that we're working on. This isn't that nobody's perfect. I'm not expecting perfection. I myself am not perfect, right? And we've created an environment in our home where we're growth oriented, right? So growth oriented doesn't mean you're bad. Growth oriented means like everybody in this family, we're heading in a particular direction. So it probably has to be more comprehensive than just that one conversation. And again, that's why it's so important to have that positivity and that safe space in the relationship, because if it's not, then I imagine that it's going to end up feeling very negative. And it'll certainly be interpreted very negatively, even if the parent doesn't mean it that way. Does that make sense? Makes sense, but how does one create the safe environment in which they could feel comfortable and in making, how does one make it from a negative to a positive meaning?
A kid is feeling very stressed out, and he comes into the conversation stressed out and feeling negative about himself. How would you make him feel positive about himself? Why does the child feel negative about himself? I'm not sure. The child is feeling negative. So I, as the parent, that's the first thing I'm paying attention to. If my kid is coming into a conversation like that and they just have such a negativity about themselves, the first thing I'm paying attention to is why they have that negativity. What's going on? It's I Zevi. I think your question is much more broad. I think your question is what does it look like to create a safe space in the home with positivity and warmth and love and connection, so that these things are seen in the positive light in which they're intended. Right. This that is my question. Right.
So I think that in general, if the child knows that they are the focus of the parent, and not just that we're getting compliance from my child, no, as the parent, I authentically want my kid to be more than just compliant. I want them to really see the value in this. So the child is the focus. I think in such an environment. They're gonna feel positive about themselves even when they're working on themselves. I'm sure that there's a lot of things that are going on around this question that need to be addressed as well. Rabboh. So we're going to stop here for today, and we'll pick it up, Beis R' Hashem, next Wednesday. If you have some questions, write them down, and we'll address them next time.
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