Tu B'Av: After the Rupture: A Six-Step Path to Repairing Klal Yisrael

2:20 People make a mistake. They think Tu B'Av is like Jewish Valentine's Day. It has nothing to do with Jewish Valentine's Day. But the Gemara does speak about how all the girls would get dressed in white. They would go out into the fields, and the boys would come out. It wasn't so frum back then. Not like it was like Camp Ask, but you know, in a different way. So everyone makes their shidduch in that way. Fine, just say that. But interestingly, it's not that is what happened on that day. But the Gemara identifies six different things that happened on Tu B'Av that we're going to go through each one of those six things. And we're going to see what the Gemara is trying to convey to us. As you'll see, these six separate events appear to be very disjointed. They don't appear to have anything to do with each other. We're going to go through these six events and see if there's a reason why these six things exist all on Tuba.

3:16 So let's go through the six things now. We don't have to guess because that's actually the sixth of the six things. Very good. So the six things that happened on Tu B'av were as follows. The first thing is that the tribes, the Shvatim, were allowed to marry each other. We all know the story of Benos Slavchad. That the women inherited property in Eretz Yisrael. So what happened? We wanted to keep the property within the shevet. But eventually, they made a decree. And they said that all the shvatim are permitted to marry each other. And so the land that they were given ultimately went over all of Palestine. That was the first thing that happened. The second thing that happened is how many of you are familiar with the story of Pileges Begeva? I know that it's in Nach, so not everybody here has yet to learn Nach. I am saying that because everyone here must learn Navi and Suvim at some point in their life. Torah too, by the way. But you should learn Tanach. It's good books to learn. So what happened in Pilagev Givva?

4:20 Some people were doing the ripta Pilagev. They killed Pilagev and then she was chopped up and sent out to the shroti. There was a war between all the shroti. So there was a person who was a levite. He was living in the mountains of Ephraim, and he had a pilegesh from Beilechem. She left him and went back to her father's home. The levite traveled to Beilechem to bring her back. And on their journey home, when this levite stopped with this pilegesh with this concubine So they stopped in a place called Givah. And it was a town that belonged to Shevet Pinamim. And what happened was that the people there, much like what happened in Sodom, said, 'We want you to hand over this levy to be abused in an inappropriate way.' To save himself, this levy pushed out the pilagish. And they killed her. So what does the Levi do? The Levi cut her up into twelve pieces and he sent the pieces of this plegesh to all the different shvatim in Klal Yisrael as a demand for justice. And again, Binyamin refused to hand over the criminals and civil war erupted. And basically Binyamin was wiped out. How many people here know how many surviving men were there from Binyamin after the war? Anyone remember six hundred?

5:54 Six hundred? So they really cannot wiped out an entire shevet. The second thing that happened on Tuba was they said we're going to because they had made a shavua that they weren't going to marry anybody from Binyamin, which was basically going to make the entire shevet extinct. So they said we're going to do away with that shavua. Our children are going to be able to marry the men of Binyamin, and that's how Binyamin was reborn. So the second thing that happened was the story of Pilegesh Begiva ended. On Tuvav, that's number two. Number three Chebra. When did the generation of the Midbar stop dying? They stopped dying on Tuvav. Very good. They stopped dying on Tuvav. And interestingly, Did you know that the entire time that Klal Yisrael was dying in the Midbar, Moshe Rabenu did not get Nivua? Did you know that? So when did Moshe Rabenu have his Nivua restored on Tuvav? So we have three things so far. What are the three things? Number one.

6:52 Very good. They were allowed to all the shvatim were allowed to marry each other. Even though the land was going to be dispersed. Number two, The story of Pilegish Megiven. Number three, the generation of the Midbar stopped dying, and prophecy was restored to Moshe Rabbeinu. Number four, anyone here know who Yeravam ben Nevat was? He is the king of Israel. Very good. And what did he do? He put up blockades to stop Klal Yisrael from going to the Beis Hamikdash. And on what was that? So on. Very good. So on Tuva of so Hosea ben Ela. So he removed the blockages from getting to the Beis Hamikdash. That's number four. Number five, We all know that in Beitar, everybody who was murdered in Beitar weren't buried, but the bodies were preserved. Where do we know this from? What bracha do we make? What was that? Very good. What is the bracha? So what does Chazal say? The Gemara says. We pull up the Gemara.

8:05 The Gemara says Hatov v'Hametiv. That's the bracha Hatov v'Hametiv. Hatov shelo is srichu v'Hametiv shenetlu l'kufura. So two things happened. Number one, the dead bodies did not decompose. And because they didn't decompose, what were we ultimately able to do when we got them back? We were able to bury our dead. So that happened on two bav. And finally on number six, Fialkov mentioned what was the story there. Very good. So they would cut the wood for the mizbeach on Tov Tubaev. And then, because after Tubaev, the nights start getting longer, the wood would start getting moist. So they would break the axes that they would use to chop down the wood. What does Rashi say? Rashi says, since at that point they were no longer doing that and the night was longer, so they would spend more time learning Torah. The six things, very quickly to review, that happened on Tu B'av were number one, the Shvatim could marry each other. Number two, Binyamin was allowed to marry back into Klal Yisrael. Number three, the generation that was dying in the Midbar stopped dying.

9:11 And prophecy was restored to Moshe Rabbeinu. Number four, Hashem ben Ailer removes the blockages to Yerushalayim that Rav and Ravah had put up. Number five, permission was finally granted to bury the dead of Beitar. And number six, the day that they broke the ax, and now they were able to learn more Torah at night. Chaver, what's the obvious problem? There are two obvious problems with this Gemara. Anyone want to guess what the two obvious problems are with this Gemara? Maybe it's not nice to say obvious. Why does make it the second year, first time you did it. Why does it make it the second year? None of those activity very good. That's Rav Zalak Hakohen's point. Rav Zalak Hakohen Milublin makes that point. Not one of those activities by and for itself would be worthy of a yomtov. And it's like to say that it's like yom kippur is a very big deal. Klein.

10:10 Interesting. Very good, excellent point. Not all of them, right? The chopping down of the wood is not necessarily bad, but it is a very interesting point. A lot of them come at the tail end of something not so good. I think the most obvious question is: What do any of them have to do with each other? These seem like six totally disparate events that happen to come out on Tuba. What is our responsibility whenever we're learning the Gemara like this? What's our responsibility? If you just learn the Gemara on a surface level So then what are you going to say? Six random things happened on Tuba. Chazal established the Yom Tov. They said it was as great a Yom Tov as Yom Kippur. I guess it says great a Yom Tov as Yom Kippur. What's the problem with saying something like that, Weiss? It's not right. Very good. It doesn't. It's not really a deep way of looking at it. Was that enough? What do you mean by that? Because if this is the second happiest day of the year and this was such a happy day, I think not even the rest of the holiday makes that like. In other words, when we don't have a deep appreciation of it.

11:12 It diminishes the thing we're comparing it to. I think that's a very fair point. Very good. I would say that. Part of the challenge of Yiddishkeit is if you don't understand the inner meaning of something, then what you're left with is the outer shell. And the more that you understand the inner meaning, the more you can make the day meaningful. You have to understand when Chazal tell us something like this, they're giving us an insight into the nature of the day. To the degree that you're actually tapped into the nature of the day. You're going to be able to connect to it. If you're not tapped into the nature of the day, you're not going to be able to connect to it. Which is why I think most people. How many people here find Tuvav particularly meaningful? If you're in Shaduchim, very good. Was it your birthday? Happy birthday! Very good. How old are you now? Sixteen. Okay. 16, Chazal say Ben Shimon asrei luchupa. Right? Some of Chazal say it's the last time that you should get married is 18 years old. 16 years old. I see you probably already in the parsha of Shidduchim. So Duba, up to you is a meaningful day. All the girls are going to come running. They're going to hear a recording like this online.

12:14 And Blessed Hashem, you should have a resume. I won't say your name out loud now because I don't want all the girls to flood you directly. But they can reach out to me. I know you're a humble guy. You don't want to put yourself out there like that. I appreciate it. But I guess for you, not only is your birthday, but also he doesn't want to make a shidduch. But still, it's interesting. You mentioned that the Gemara speaks about like this was the day of shidduchim, but these six things don't have anything to do with shidduchim, right? Unless they do. You understand? So let's try to get a deeper insight into this. You guys ready? Goes like this. I want to have a conversation with you tonight. It's an important conversation. Unfortunately, it's not a conversation that we have often enough. It's not a conversation that we can start to have early enough today. It's the avoda of rabbim to talk to boys and girls about marriage from a young age. There's a lot of anxiety around marriage today. People are aware today of the challenges of marriage.

13:18 It's important for us to start now thinking about what type of husbands we want to be. That's going to be, if not the most important decision you make in your life, among the most important decisions you make in your life, right? Not just who to marry, but how to marry. And if we just let guys learn from Hollywood about what marriage looks like, I don't think we're going to get the best picture for two reasons. Number one, generally Hollywood doesn't talk about marriage. What do they talk about? They talk about dating until the period of marriage, and then it's happily ever after. And then if Hollywood talks about marriage, what do they talk about? They usually don't talk about the most functional traditional marriages. So the question is: What does Tuba teach us about marriage in a very real way that we can have a real conversation tonight about things that you can already start doing now? You're 16 years old. You have to start thinking about marriage. You can already start to prepare yourself to be the husband that eventually you want to be. My oldest daughter, who now is married with children of her own, when she was in third grade

14:20 She went to visit Rebbe Zun Kaniewski and she had a private audience with Rebbe Zun Kaniewski. Rebbe Zun Kaniewski said to her, "You started davening for your chasam." She was in third grade; she was eight. So my daughter said, "No, I haven't started davening for my chasam." And Rebbe Zun Kaniewski said, "Never too early to start davening for your chasam." I think it's a very beautiful message to tell children. You could already be thinking about who you're going to marry, preparing yourself for that moment, davening for the other person. That's a very special thing and you should know. My daughter did it. She's been davening since third grade for her husband. She married a good guy. A lot of good tefillos up there.

14:56 I think there's a major difference. It's an important conversation. I think there's a major difference between boys talking to girls and dating. I don't think those are the same thing. And I'll be honest with you. Also, I think there's a major difference between dating toelis and dating for the sake of dating. Dating tovelas means I'm dating a person in order to get married, and once I know that I'm getting married, I get engaged. There's a major difference between that and somebody who says I'm going to date and I'm going to date for a couple of years, even though I know already that I'm going to marry the person that I'm dating. But now that I've established it, I've got to wait until I'm ready to get married.

15:28 When we're ready to get married, we start dating. When we're starting, and once we date, and we know, then we get engaged. Then once we're engaged, we get married. I don't think, if I'm being very honest with you, that this is a guy who did marry his—I don't know whatever you want to call her—but a girl that I knew well in high school. I don't know if I dated her; she never actually said yes to me in high school when I asked her out. But we did talk for a while, so I thought we were dating. And I'm telling you that talking to a girl in high school is not nearly the same thing as talking to a girl at Tuellis. And certainly not the same thing as being married. What does Chazal have to say about this? You guys ready for something deep? I know you guys are ready for Slende. You ready for Slende? What's up, shot boys? Tuesday night. It's late. It was a long day. Leagues today. Three on three tournament. Very hot. I'm very hot outside today. We're going to have to learn some good tire to keep you guys awake. You guys are NCSY Kolo. You were born awake. You were born ready to go. Let's go. So it goes something like this. The first thing.

16:32 That we need to talk about is as follows. In every marriage, there's going to be a point where you have an argument. We'll call it an argument, not a fight. But there's going to be what we'll call a rupture. There's going to be something in the marriage that goes south. There's going to be an argument. There's going to be some time where there's friction. The question we're going to be dealing with tonight, I think it's appropriate if you think about it, Tishavav represents the rupture between Kol Yisrael and Makov Shemarchu. It represents the moment where the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed, so to speak. In the same way that there was a rupture on Tishavav, every marriage has a rupture. Would you tell them outside that we're just getting shirin here? Maybe they're going past. Let them be. They're going past. The same way, there's a rupture on Tishav. There's a rupture in every marriage.

17:32 The first lesson, and really all sex are going to be about this, is how do you repair a relationship with your spouse after you had an argument? Why is this one of the most important lessons that you can learn in marriage? Because if you think that marriage is going to be smooth, you're already mistaken. The nature of marriage is designed tension. The nature of marriage is she's your Ezer Kinerdo. You know what that means, Ezer Kinerdo? It means she's against you. She's against you and she's helping you. By being against you, she's helping you. Because it forces you to grow up. It forces you to become the best version of yourself. Every marriage has a fight in it. There's no such thing as a marriage that doesn't have an argument. I one time met a Talmud many years ago. His parents got divorced. It was totally out of the blue. So I asked him, "Did you see it coming?" He goes, "No, my parents never fought." I said, "That's not a good marriage. In a good marriage, a couple has an argument."

18:34 They work it out. There's all tension. Usually, why is there no fighting in a marriage? It's when people stop caring. So the question is: Step. What are the six steps? And we're going to go through each one of these lessons. You're going to see each one of these events gives us a psychological insight into the way you repair a relationship after things have fallen apart. Step number one. In a marriage, there's something called healthy interdependence. Has anyone here ever heard of those words? What that means is as follows. In a marriage, you need two people. Now it sounds obvious, you need two people in a marriage. It's not obvious at all. What very often happens in marriage is something called codependency. Basically, you become so identified with your wife and your wife becomes so identified with you that two people are actually no longer two people. They're identified so much with each other that they lose their sense of self. What happens is it looks something like this. Even though there's something very beautiful about becoming one.

19:43 But remember, it has to be two people becoming one. It can't be just one person. The very best way to say it is a famous story with Rav Aryeh Leven. Rav Aryeh Leven was of course a tzaddik of Yerushalayim. For those of you that haven't heard of him, there's an amazing book from Simcha Raz called The Tzaddik. I think The Tzaddik in Our Time. Amazing book. Everybody should read it. So Rav Aryeh Leven's wife was sick. Her foot was like she hurt her foot. So when they went to the doctor, Ary Leibenz said to the doctor. He said, "My wife's foot is hurting us." That's the best way of saying it. Why? Because it's still whose foot? It's her foot. But who's it hurting? It's hurting us. Meaning, I'm, we're two people. It's still my wife's foot, but it's one that we've established this oneness. But it's very dangerous when two people merge. And now there's nobody to be married to because she's you and you are her. So the way we think about it in psychology is two people firmly planted in their own soil, having a relationship with each other.

20:46 So there's borders and there's boundaries. I am I, and you are you. Together we participate in a healthy relationship. But if chas v'shalom, I lose myself to you, or you lose yourself to me, we can't be in a healthy relationship. Does that make sense? That's a very big shaila. How this works out with other Menchava. Other Menchava were originally one, and they were separated. Now there are two people. They were told to become one. Why did Adam listen to Chava? Is there an element of codependence? There's a lot of people that have spoken about things like that in the Torah. Very beautiful. We're not going to get into that now tonight. But yes, there's a lot to talk about in that regard. Very good. So far, so good. You guys are getting this. I want you to think about something. Let's think about something deeply. I know you're not married, but again, it's preparation.

21:32 Imagine your wife says something to you that's very hurtful. She says something to you like really hurtful. What's stopping you from being able to repair the relationship? What's stopping you from being able to repair the relationship is not having an independent sense of self. In other words, if I'm so identified with my wife that I'm not lovable unless she loves me. I'm not worthy unless she approves of me. So now she just said something so nasty. And she, so now I'm devastated. Why am I devastated? Because my entire sense of self was wrapped up where? Where was my sense of self planted? In her yard. Remember, what's the episode of a healthy marriage? I'm planted in my yard, she's planted in her yard. Together in the space in between those two yards, we build our relationship. But if I lose myself to her, if my sense, if my entire sense of self is wrapped up in her, then what happens when she says a not nice thing? I totally lose myself. So the first step in repairing a relationship that has undergone a rupture is

22:52 I am my own unique person. Your words could hurt me. Because words from someone I love might hurt. But they don't devastate me. I don't lose myself to your words. Does that make sense? Where do we see this? Let's think about it. The original Shvatim came to Eretz Yisrael. What did they all have? They all had their own lands. And who are they allowed to marry? Who are they allowed to marry? They were only allowed to marry their own. What's the value in doing that? In the beginning, as you are developing the shavet, what's the value of doing that? You are developing an identity, right? Each shavet is their own identity. Each shavet lives on their lands. But what happens if those shvatim can only marry each other? The identities start to imprison them. Once you become a healthy sense of self, what do you need to then do? Take that healthy sense of self and join with someone else, right?

23:57 So you have two stages in any relationship that are absolutely critical. Number one, you have to be your own shevet. You have to be your own identity, your own land. And then what do you do? You don't lose that. What do you do? You take that and you share it with somebody else. So you see how the model—the first event that happens on Tu B'av was what? Originally, the shvatim were not allowed to marry outside of the shevet. Why? Because they weren't yet ready to disperse. Why were they ready to disperse? Because they didn't have a strong enough sense of identity. If they would get married to other people They would quote unquote lose their land. What does it mean, Smith, to lose their land? It would mean I don't have yet enough of a sense of self. Why does this answer your question a little bit? 16 years old. We don't have a developed sense of self enough yet to be able to join with somebody else. It takes a lot of time to build that sense of self. But then once I have that sense of self, what am I meant to do with it? Go join someone from someone who's other than me. But when you join someone that's other than you, what's the danger? You could lose yourself to them. So you see, what's the first step in the Torah?

24:59 The first step that Chazal bring: don't lose yourself to somebody else. Join with somebody else. So if somebody said something to you, if your wife says something to you that really hurts, what do you say? Ouch! That really hurts. But I didn't. I'm not dead because she said a not nice thing to me. Guys, do you ever have this in any of your relationships where someone's words could devastate you absolutely completely? That means to some extent you've outsourced your power. You're so identified with them that their words hurt you so much. If you have a firm sense of self, somebody else's words could hurt. My friend's words, my parents' words, my siblings' words, they could hurt me, but I didn't lose myself because of their words. Do you understand? Does that make sense? That's step number one. Step number two. We have a tendency in a fight, and you'll see how all these things flow from each other. We have a tendency. Tell me if you've ever done this. That when you get into a fight with somebody

26:00 And they've, let's say, done the wrong thing. Let's say they did something that really hurt you. Have you ever turned them into a villain? Do you know what I mean by turning them into a villain? It's not that they did a bad thing. All of a sudden they're a bad person. And then you start. It's called marshaling evidence. She always does this. He always does this. You should know. And you start bringing examples. They're always selfish. They did this and they did this. It's very interesting when we take somebody who did something wrong and we turn them into a villain. You're not actually holding them accountable. True accountability says you did something wrong. You did something that hurt me. But you're not a bad person. Do you hear the difference? I'm coming to you. I'm saying that was not okay. I'm going to hold you accountable for that. And by the way, why can I do that? Why can I hold you accountable? Go back to lesson number one. Because who am I? I'm my own person with my own sense of self.

27:03 From a place of self, I can now come to you without turning you into a villain. I can say that was not okay. But just because that was not okay doesn't mean you're a bad person and you need to be destroyed. I can say what you did wasn't right. You're still a decent person who made a mistake. I'm going to wait for him to say that he has to sense himself out. We know they're good people, but they're doing bad things. We have to get more close with him and say have a kind of an idea of who they are, so when they do bad things. You said it so beautifully, Mamish. I couldn't have said it any better myself. I think you said it in a stunning way. Step one is I have a sense of self. From my sense of self, I see you. Usually, people that don't have a sense of self narrate other people as villains. They make them evil. It's easy to make somebody into a villain. It's very psychologically useful to make somebody into a villain because I just get to wipe you out. But that's not really a healthy way of being. Is your point that villains are.

28:07 No. There is such a thing as again. I'm not here to say that there is such a thing as evil in the world. There are bad people in the world. I'm not Chassid Shalom. I'm saying Hitler is not. I'm not being malamed chosan Hitlerim avshemal. But most people aren't Hitler. Your wife is not Hitler. So your wife might have done something to hurt you. You might have done something to hurt her. In a healthy relationship, I speak about the action, not about the person. This thing that you did when you did that made me feel right. Why it brought up X for me. As opposed to you always do this, and don't you know that you're such a bad person and you're so selfish and you're so self-absorbed and all you think about is yourself. You're not holding her accountable. You're actually saying something more about yourself than you are about the other person in that case. Because you're just spilling out your stuff on another person. Let's think about what happened. Shavat ben Yamin. Did something bad happen in Shavat ben Yamin? They needed to be held accountable for that. But then, at some point, when there were only six hundred men left, what was going to happen to Binyamin? What did Kal Yisrael realize?

29:08 We're going to wipe out Sheva Binyamin. And what was the epiphany that they had at that moment? We're not holding you accountable. We're destroying you. So they said, we made a shvua that we weren't going to marry into Sheva Binyamin. But that was only for us. Our children could, right? And that's the way they got around it because they said, Just because you made a mistake now doesn't mean you're wiped out forever. In a healthy relationship, we hold you accountable now, but you're still lovingly a part of our family. People can make a mistake. What can you do if your stuff starts relying on you too much? This piece of me is going to see you. It's a very complex question that you're asking. Not surprised, you're a very deep person. When somebody else shows up in a way that their identity becomes wrapped up in us, if we're in self. I'm not trying to do anything to them because I'm not in control of people, places, or things. And from a place of self, I maintain my own boundaries. And if they're not okay with that, that's okay. I can be okay with them having stuff. We could talk about it. We could communicate.

30:13 But just because you narrate me, if I'm in self, right? Just because you narrate me as being evil because I'm being healthy and appropriate doesn't mean that I'm going to shift the way that I am. So if I'm firmly rooted in myself, just because you have a story about me, doesn't mean that I have to change. I'm saying if someone's stuff, as long as not do, they start doing it. That's what I'm saying. I could have healthy communication, and if somebody is, somebody, villainizes me, right, and they say the other way. If I'm in self, you know what I'm doing? Whose stuff is that? Just because you spill out stuff at my feet doesn't mean I have to pick it up. If I'm firmly planted, it goes back to rule number one. What's rule number one? Firmly planted in your own soil. So if you come at me and you villainize me and I'm in self, that's your stuff. You're villainizing me. I'm not going to fall for it. I'm not going to get angry back, and I'm not going to lose myself to you because I'm firmly planted in my own soil. When do you lose yourself to the other person for villainizing you? When you're not firmly planted in your own soil. And that's usually what happens.

31:16 Since each one of us don't have step one. When you come into my territory and I go into your territory, it becomes a whole mess. So step one, I'm me and you're you. And if you're showing up in a way, however you're showing up, I'm still me. Step two is when you do something right from a place of self. I don't villainize you. I call out the action without calling out the person. And that's what happened with Shava Binyamin. So far so good. Lvovsky, what do you say? It's good. Make sense? Yeah. Good. If you agree, then I. Step three. So far so good. Step three. The deaths in the Dar Hamidbar stopped, and Moshe Rabbeinu received prophecy again. This is a very deep one. Chaver, sometimes in marriage you start expecting the fight. You ever have a relationship like that? You ever have a friendship like that where everything just becomes a fight and you're almost like expecting the fight, which creates the fight. You know what I'm saying? You're so used to the pattern of having the fight that it happens over and over again. And sometimes when it happens over and over again, what happens is that the system becomes so enmeshed that people don't know how to stop.

32:37 Chaveri, you know what it was like? Let's think about this. You know what it was like? The Dvar HaMe'bar is dying. Every Tishah B'av, we know they died, right? On Tu B'av it stopped. Every Tishah B'av they were dying. And Moshe Rabbeinu's prophecy was restored. Why did Moshe Rabbeinu lose prophecy? You lose connection. This is very important. You lose connection when you anticipate that things are going to fall apart. When you're in a state of anticipating, you're like the trauma is just happening over and over again. You know what happens in that space? You lose connection. You lose communication. So when will things stop? When it stopped, and this is what happens sometimes in relationships also, when you realize, wait a second, the cycle is over. We can break the cycle. We don't need to keep doing this with each other. That's the next step in repairing the relationship.

33:34 Said it very well. So step one is what? Step one is I have a self. I'm firmly planted in my own soil. What step two? I don't villainize the other person. You guys with me? Step three is what? The cycle. I can break the cycle. Just because we've always been doing it this way doesn't mean it has to continue. And once we break the cycle, what starts to happen? We restore communication. Because in the cycle, people don't talk. So it's an interesting. The Gemara is highlighting Tishabav is the rupture, Tubaav is the repair. We now have three steps in how you repair a relationship. Step number one, you have a self. Step number two, I'm not villainizing the other person. I'm holding them accountable for the relationship. Step number three, just because we've done this before, and even though we've done it so many times in the same cycle over and over again, what do we do? We could break the cycle. We could start to get more mature. We could see it happening. And instead of just going over and over again

34:37 Once we break the cycle, what do we restore? The connection of communication. Loud so I can hear you. It all seems to connect back to the first step. The third one, if you have such a strong sense of self, you won't get caught up in this whole thing where it becomes part of your identity. Or there'll be kind of it thinks that would be like, wait, I'm not someone who is loved. You said it so beautifully. I'm only going to add on one knach. When you're young and you're married, you will get caught up in the cycle. Because you don't know what you're doing yet. And so, even if you have a very strong sense of self, sometimes naturally you'll slip. So I need step one is when it fell apart. Step one, wait a second, I'm still my own individual person. Step two, I'm going to hold your actions accountable. I'm not going to villainize you. Step three, we don't have to do this again. I see it happening. I know that when you say this and I say this, and then we start going in the cycle, we can stop the cycle. Once we stop the cycle, what do we do? We restore communication. So yes, you're right. It's all built on step one.

35:38 Step one leads to step two. Step two leads to step three. Weiss, wouldn't you say that a relationship that isn't fully healed is more like a healthy relationship? I would say every relationship needs to be oriented towards healing. So it's a relationship. It's not like a zero sum game. It's not like you win or you lose. It's an organism, and like any organism, it needs to be watered and it needs to grow over time. So your relationship with your wife for the first five years is going to look different than the first ten years, twenty years, and thirty years. I'm not ready to say. I'm going to answer your question now. I'm not ready to label healthy, Unhealthy. I try to stay away from those labels in general. I would say relationships are human.

36:22 I agree. We're still working on repairing the relationship. The rupture is very serious. Not yet, but what are we learning from this, Tubov? You could break the cycle. And in fact, what's your responsibility? And how would you break the cycle? How do you break the cycle? Step one, you got to go back. I have a sense of self. Step two, let's have the hard conversation. Not about villainizing the other. We're going to get to this on a national level at the end of this year. I'm going to show you how all this works. Not just I'm using the muscle of a husband and wife to try to talk about Klal Yisrael for a second and how we could actually heal Klal Yisrael. Which is where we're going. Is there a question for later after we see like four, five, and six? Are you able to skip certain steps? I don't think so. I don't think you can skip the steps. I think each step is necessary. I think number one, in any rupture, you have to say, "I'm still me, right? You're still good. Right? And we don't have to continue this. Let's talk." So far, I don't think you can skip any of those steps. Although some might go faster than the other. Client. Is there such thing as a good divorce?

37:27 It's a very complicated question. It's too big for this year. Talk to me after the year privately. But it's a very important question, and it's worthy of real time. I appreciate the question very much. You said that there's a substep of figuring out the other person's sense of self. Where does that? Which category is that? What do you mean? What he was saying is, if I'm in self, then usually what happens is I'll narrate you as a good person who did something that I need to hold you accountable for. If you're not in self, then what happens? You villainize the other person. So it's not for me. I'm not deciding who you are and who you're not. I'm calling the action out, not the person. The person is still lovable. Step four. You guys still with me? Makes sense. How we doing? That one makes sense. Step four. What was the fourth thing? What did we say? The fourth thing was the roadblocks to your shalayim were removed. Anyone want to guess what that means? Now that you guys are starting to get the hang of this, what does it mean? That be like the third one that we stop the cycle.

38:37 I stop the cycle, but what do I need to do now? Now that I have stopped the cycle. I got to actually talk about what happened. Because even though the Beis Hamikdash still exists, the road there is still blocked. So think about the Beis Hamikdash as the center where we actually have the relationship. I have a desire to get to the relationship. I have a deep sense of self. You are not a villain. The cycle is over. But even though the cycle is over, what do we need to do? We need to work through the stuff. Because at the end of the day, now that communication has been restored, what do I need to do? Let's talk it through because there are real things that exist in the relationship. And there are real blockages in the relationship. Let's remove those blockages. Is this starting to make sense? Do you see how the Gemara is not just telling us history? What's the Gemara doing? It's laying out a path of how to behave in a healthy relationship. Pretty amazing, Chazal, no? I feel like after restoring the relationship, after the communication is restored, it's somewhat likely that person would call.

39:44 Say it again. I'm missing it. So you said number. Ruby says number three that we improve communication. We like break the cycle. But I still have to deal with the blockage. You have to deal with the blockage. I feel like that's where you're a villain. Because if you're still a villain, so then the cycle is for sure going to continue. Because if you're a villain, I have to protect myself from a villain or I have to attack a villain. I know somebody that literally said that. They said they were in a very dysfunctional marriage. They said my husband is a villain and it's a sacred act to attack him. I'm like your husband is a person. There are behaviors here that are not okay. Honestly, in both directions. We're calling out the behavior, not the person. That relationship, unfortunately, didn't make it. So there has to be a baseline level before we remove the blockages. So far so good. We go to step five now. Chaver, what was step five? Anybody remember? In Beitar, all the bodies were still there.

40:46 But they weren't what? They weren't buried. What is the value of burying a body? Let's think about this for a second. What do you get when you bury a body? Closure, right? It's like until you actually bring the person to kivura. It's still there. At some point, you actually have to bury it. If you're following all the steps, it goes like this: Step one, I have a sense of self. Step two, you're not a villain. You did something that I need to hold you accountable for, but you're not a villain. Step three, the cycle of violence is over. We're talking. Communication has been restored. Step four What step four? We're removing the blockages. Step five, we have to grieve. There has to be a container. You have to be able to say that hurt. For so long, we were in a relationship where we were hurting each other. You have to be able to tell the person you were with that hurt. You have to be able to grieve, and then you know what you have to be able to do: bury it. You know what that means to bury it? You got to let it go. At some point, you have to decide the fight's over.

41:57 And do you guys know that that's not so simple? Do you know that there are people who, because they were in that cycle for so long and they didn't know how to get out of it, what ends up happening? Even if they stop the cycle, 20 years later they'll go. Do you know that when you were doing that, it's still right? It's because they never buried the fight. They never ended it. There was never closure. When you until you bury somebody, it's like the death is everywhere. Once you bury them, it's over. That's the beauty of kura. So that's step five, and then step six. And this is the hardest thing in the world to do. Some couples get so used to fighting and then repairing that they don't actually know how to be in a relationship. It's an interesting thing. So if you follow the six steps, this is what it looks like. Number one, I have a sense of self. Number two, you're not a villain. Number three, the cycle is over and we restore communication. Number four, remove the blockages. Number five, we end the fight. Dead and buried. We finally grieved. We got the closure that we needed. Step six, break the axe.

43:01 The axe was necessary. The axe was necessary for a while. It's a holy thing to be able to cut down the wood that's necessary for the mizbeach. But at some point, that avodah is over, and a new avodah begins. And you know what the new avodah is, Rabbi Osei? Now the night time is longer, and what do you do? Learn. What's that a good metaphor for? When you enter into the night in a relationship where you actually did the first five steps, you know what you get to do? You start instead of fighting with each other when periods get dark. You start to learn. You start to find the wisdom of how to live with a person because the relationship will always have rocky parts. It's not ever going to be true that a relationship is always going to be smooth sailing. But I could become wise from the darkness. I could lean into it. Isn't two of the longest days in the Jewish calendar? And that's why at this point we're now starting into heading into longer nights. So we're heading now into the longer nights, and that's where Rashi says now use that night time for learning Torah.

44:02 In other words, now that you've learned the art of repair, let's actually learn. Rabbeinu, we're saying this: these six steps, right? We use them as an amazing muscle for a husband and a wife and how to repair a relationship. But I mentioned to you guys that really, I said this twice. Really. This is really six steps. That's not just in our interpersonal relationships. It's also how we heal Klal Yisroel. I want to share with you a feeling that I have. When I gave the shmuuz on Tishavah about, Is there room for me and making room for other Jews? Sometimes I feel. Tell me if you feel the same way. Sometimes I feel on Tishavah like there's a lot of platitudes, Like achdos, achdos. But at the end of the day, Do we have that achdos? So it's like we say, we gotta fix this. We know the problem. The problem is we're in a fight. We're keep like why he's pointed out, Moshiach's not here. Beis Hamikdash is still not rebuilt. You know what the answer is?

45:05 On Tishah B'av we were meant to become aware of the problem. On Tuba of what are you meant to do? Heal the problem. I want to present to you a model of how we could heal every single problem in Klal Yisrael. Your friends, your communities, your countries. Whether you consider yourself Charedi or Dati Lumi, it doesn't matter. Conservative, Reform, doesn't matter. Whatever your community is, wherever you find value, this is what you need to do because we had a fight. Number one, if you have a deep sense of self as a person, you know what you do when you have a fight. I'm still okay. Just because we had a fight doesn't mean the relationship is over. I'm still me, and you are still you. That's step number one. So we need everyone. Just calm down for a second. Everyone, just recognize: just because somebody is doing something in the relationship that you don't like, doesn't mean that you have to lose yourself to what they are doing.

46:09 You are still you. Step number two, and this is very hard. Your community is not a villain. Just because I disagree with you. And just because I look at your community and say, 'But your community hurt me,' doesn't mean that you're a villain. We could talk, not to make communities and cliques evil, but to call out the behavior. Not to say, 'Oh, this whole community is like this and this whole community is like that.' Our future is ultimately with each other. So we could say you're doing something wrong without saying that community is bad people. You hear the difference? So far, so good. You getting it? What's step number three, Rabozi? Stop the cycle. We got to stop the cycle. Don't we see how it goes every single time? Before October seventh, this country was on the verge of civil war. Do you guys know that? October eighth, everybody was in a state of achdus. And now, where are we again? I don't want to say we're back to chasrusam what it was October sixth, but it ain't good, right? The cycle continues. What's our responsibility? We got to break the cycle. And what happens in order once we break the cycle? We got to start talking again. We got to sit down at the same table.

47:27 We have to have the hard conversations because step four there are real blockages. We have to acknowledge that there are things that are happening in the community that are tough. You think this and I think that and I've done this and you've done that. Let's have the hard conversations. Let's remove the blockages. We want to have a relationship with each other. We know we want to have a relationship with each other because we remember October eighth. But we gotta get to a stage where we stop doing the same thing over and over again. We start talking so that we could work on the blockages. I can have that conversation because you're not evil. You don't see the world the same way as me, but that's okay. You're from your shevet. I don't want to see the world the same as me, and I don't want to see the world the same as you. We can respect each other's differences. Once we remove the blockages, what do we do? Step five.

48:15 What'd you say? Not forget about it. It's time to let it die. It's time to bury it. What's wrong? What's wrong about forgetting about it? I don't need to forget the past in order to forgive the past. I could acknowledge that this is a very real part of our story. But I right exactly. But I don't. I'm not beholden to it. I'm not going to be sitting here seventy years from now and having the same conversations about well, your community did this to me and your community did this to me. At some point, we have to decide. We've worked through our issues. We've come to ways, creative ways of removing the blockages, because that's what it's going to require. Because we're not all going to see the world the same way. We have to be able to work around those blockages so we can get to the Beis Hamikdash. And then at some point, we're going to have to bury the hatchet. We're going to have to say this period of our lives is over. But Rav Ovshai, does that mean that there's never going to be a bump in the road again? There might still be bumps in the road. We still might enter into the night time. But having gone through the process.

49:16 What do we do now? We're going to learn. We're going to learn Taira at night. Tubah presents for us a model of how Klal Yisrael is meant to heal after Tishah B'av. It's not okay to end Tishah B'av with platitudes of Achtos and then keep doing the same thing over and over again. We have to go through the six steps of Tubah if we want. Here's the punchline. If I want to be able to get to the shaduchim in the field, I need to become this type of person before I get married. I need to already be working. These are the prerequisite steps. You want to go out into the field and get dressed in white and say, "Look at me," and let's get married and let's build a family. I already need to know the Torah of rupture and repair before I even get married. So if we want to be able to get to Har Sinai, and have that marriage with Hakadosh Baruch Hu. If we want to sit keisha chad beleve chad, so to speak, and we want to actually get married to Kalisar, what do we need? We need to learn the Torah of rupture and repair. Tuba is the day where we focus not on the problem; we focus on the actual solution.

50:22 Last question for the night. What's going to happen? Inevitably, we're going to work through this fight. You know what's going to happen? There's going to be something else that comes up. But hopefully, because we're still figuring out our marriage. We're in shana rishona, so to speak, and we're having these cycles. We're going to get better at it over time. So if we really go through these first five steps, you know what's going to happen? The next time we have a different fight, we're going to be ready for it. Because I already know the Torah of nighttime. I already know how to illuminate the darkness. I'm not afraid of the darkness anymore because I know how to repair. I know what it's going to take. You're losing yourself and you're slipping onto my side of the street and you're starting to come after me. That's okay because I have that strong sense of self. I'm not going to villainize you for having a bad day. I am going to speak about the behavior. I'm not going to speak about you as a person. I'm not going to continue the cycle. I'm going to keep talking. Let's talk about what happened and let's talk about how we can get through those blockages. And then after we do that, let's end it. Let's know how to bury it, right? Since I know those first five.

51:36 And I'm living in the perspective of the sixth, I'm not going to keep doing the same thing over and over. I'm going to get better at it. Will I be perfect? No. Marriage is not for perfect people, right? It's for two imperfect people trying to become one. So there's always going to be bumps in the road. But if I know the tirat at night, I can hopefully do a really good job in the future. Rebos, I have a wonderful evening.